OMG the work throttle body is the SH$t!!
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Why shouldn't the effects of a TB upgrade be seen on a dyno? If Xhp gains are claimed, this should translate to a dyno in some form, right?
IC testing, due to the issues mentioned earlier in this thread, isn't so easy. However, my friends at PVO/Dodge are actually trying to address this issue with SAE by standardizing the dyno conditions to account for intercooler efficiencies-- something that has yet to be done, AFAIK.
Shiv
IC testing, due to the issues mentioned earlier in this thread, isn't so easy. However, my friends at PVO/Dodge are actually trying to address this issue with SAE by standardizing the dyno conditions to account for intercooler efficiencies-- something that has yet to be done, AFAIK.
Shiv
I would love to see this happen
.
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From: Danville/Blackhawk, California
Originally Posted by VTECH8TR
Shiv,
I would love to see this happen .
I would love to see this happen
.Shiv
Last edited by shiv@vishnu; Nov 26, 2004 at 07:09 PM.
As a consumer, I'd definitely like to see some dyno results or 1/4 mile times before slapping down $350 for a part like this. I question the gains claimed for this throttle body because I experience little difference when upgrading the throttle body from 52mm to 60mm on my GSX.
*EDIT*
I port matched the inlet of my intake manifold to 60mm at the same time I installed the 60mm 1g throttle body.
*EDIT*
I port matched the inlet of my intake manifold to 60mm at the same time I installed the 60mm 1g throttle body.
Last edited by marksae; Nov 26, 2004 at 07:52 PM.
Originally Posted by Ted B
A larger throttle body can give the impression of more power at part throttle simply because it allows more air through at a given throttle angle. This can create the illusion that the engine is more 'peppy' (an old Subaru and Honda trick), and fool one's 'butt dyno', which is inaccurate anyway. Of course, unless the factory TB creates a significant pressure drop at WOT, there will be little or no increase in WOT power.
At this time, neither sellers nor any individuals can come forth with a properly conducted dyno test that substantiates any claims. This being the case, I'll remain dubious as to the benefits of a larger TB unless someone can come clean with a quality test that demonstrates otherwise.
In the meantime, I'll relegate this part with the likes of aftermarket intakes, larger IC and such, which have proven to be non-issues (or even detrimental) where reaching the power limits of the factory turbo are desired. With cars running 11sec E.T.'s with factory air boxes, IC's and TBs, money can be better spent elsewhere in the powertrain.
There are at least 1000 ways to throw money at these cars, and at least 900 of them amount to nothing more than exercises in financial depletion and 'bling'.
At this time, neither sellers nor any individuals can come forth with a properly conducted dyno test that substantiates any claims. This being the case, I'll remain dubious as to the benefits of a larger TB unless someone can come clean with a quality test that demonstrates otherwise.
In the meantime, I'll relegate this part with the likes of aftermarket intakes, larger IC and such, which have proven to be non-issues (or even detrimental) where reaching the power limits of the factory turbo are desired. With cars running 11sec E.T.'s with factory air boxes, IC's and TBs, money can be better spent elsewhere in the powertrain.
There are at least 1000 ways to throw money at these cars, and at least 900 of them amount to nothing more than exercises in financial depletion and 'bling'.
For the cost, you'll get a lot more real (WOT) power from cam gears or a 10.5" hotside.
Last edited by Noize; Nov 26, 2004 at 08:16 PM.
"The great Empirical Dyno God does not always give the answer that one is looking for. For instance old straight six Jaguar engines as installed in C, D and E-types if any of you are old enough to remember these make more power on the dyno with SU carburators but they run faster lap times with Webers, which is why in fact the factory always fitted their hot race engines with Webers. The reason has to do with the accelerator pumps in the Weber and the lack of them in the SU. This affected transient throttle response suffciently to make up for the small but signifcant power advantage of the SU on a road circuit."
Alleggerita -
I totally agree with what you're saying about the E-types, which I have spent my time with. I am firmly convinced that with issues like the Webers' accelerator pumps, or certain carbs' leaning out the float chamber around certain corners, or whatever, the road "dyno" is certainly a better place than the shop dyno to do R&D. However, in this day and age of fuel injection and engine ECU programming, the shop dyno is a powerful tool, and way more applicable to "road usage" than older cars. I think that's why I and some other scientists (I'm a Mechanical Engineer Car Geek) demand empirical evidence to support some of these claims that people make. Shiv says the Xede works, and he has the charts to prove it. That's what works for a majority of the buying public. I can't understand why more vendors don't do the same. Thanks for the great post.
- Rob
Alleggerita -
I totally agree with what you're saying about the E-types, which I have spent my time with. I am firmly convinced that with issues like the Webers' accelerator pumps, or certain carbs' leaning out the float chamber around certain corners, or whatever, the road "dyno" is certainly a better place than the shop dyno to do R&D. However, in this day and age of fuel injection and engine ECU programming, the shop dyno is a powerful tool, and way more applicable to "road usage" than older cars. I think that's why I and some other scientists (I'm a Mechanical Engineer Car Geek) demand empirical evidence to support some of these claims that people make. Shiv says the Xede works, and he has the charts to prove it. That's what works for a majority of the buying public. I can't understand why more vendors don't do the same. Thanks for the great post.
- Rob
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From: Jackson, MS
A 59mm throttle diameter is not bad at all. The stock 2G DSM's had a 52mm aperture. I believe you could buy an aftermarket unit from from BBK through Summit that measured 62mm for $290.00...So all in all, 59 isn't bad. Also its important that you port match your intake manifold to match any increase in throttle diameter for smooth flow.
Jesse
Jesse
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From: North bay
Originally Posted by Ted B
A larger throttle body can give the impression of more power at part throttle simply because it allows more air through at a given throttle angle. This can create the illusion that the engine is more 'peppy' (an old Subaru and Honda trick), and fool one's 'butt dyno', which is inaccurate anyway.
Originally Posted by b18flip
How big does Works machine the OEM throttle body to? 63mm?
Works takes the stock TB to a machine shop somewhere across the San Francisco bayarea which is where they also make the Works croxxplate ver. 2.
hhmm, i might just take my TB and bring it to a machine shop. I know of honda guys doing it for around $100 like this guy http://www.maxbore.com
Originally Posted by b18flip
hhmm, i might just take my TB and bring it to a machine shop. I know of honda guys doing it for around $100 like this guy http://www.maxbore.com
This looks like a deal. Anyone used this guy yet?
RC engineering does Throtle bodies
but it does required a larger butterfly flapper on the inside. Im not sure what specs they can maximize with the stock evo TB. ITs near 290-310 to have it done. you are better off buying the aperture II from works for $340.00 + im sure they flash your car
but it does required a larger butterfly flapper on the inside. Im not sure what specs they can maximize with the stock evo TB. ITs near 290-310 to have it done. you are better off buying the aperture II from works for $340.00 + im sure they flash your car
Originally Posted by gestalt
This looks like a deal. Anyone used this guy yet?
RC does nice work. I had them do a tb for me for a honda motor 3 years ago and it came out great it made a differance more on top rpm. Plus RC has a great history in racing(Russ Collins)