K&N drop in filter suppose to be best filter under 400whp?
K&N drop in filter suppose to be best filter under 400whp?
I heard from someone on the forums that if your car has under 400whp the K&N will give you the best performance? If you have one share your thoughts on it, is it louder compared to the stock filter?
K&N drop in is not that loud for me. I actually like the fact that you can hear the bov a little better with it. Plus the quality is pretty good. Felt a nice difference, but not too much since I really don't have any major performance mods as of yet.
I think some of the tuners chose to keep the stock air box with the K&N panel just so you keep most of the low end torque that you would sort of lose with a high flow intake/filter setup. I LIKE the low end torque myself rather than the high end power. BUT i do like the sound most of the intakes make.
I think some of the tuners chose to keep the stock air box with the K&N panel just so you keep most of the low end torque that you would sort of lose with a high flow intake/filter setup. I LIKE the low end torque myself rather than the high end power. BUT i do like the sound most of the intakes make.
An aftermarket drop-in air filter will not have any adverse effect on either low end torque or top end power unless it upsets the MAF signal.
Air filters favor neither 'low end torque' nor 'top end power'.
Air filters favor neither 'low end torque' nor 'top end power'.
FWIW, there is no before/after A/F data provided in that dyno sheet, and therefore no way of knowing how the intake affected the MAF signal. This is why some report a slight gain, and others a slight loss.
Originally Posted by Ted B
FWIW, there is no before/after A/F data provided in that dyno sheet, and therefore no way of knowing how the intake affected the MAF signal. This is why some report a slight gain, and others a slight loss.
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Originally Posted by Evillusion
My car has 13 LESS hp with the Injen intake kit.
Originally Posted by EVOTEXAS
...I would have to recommend the Injen setup after seeing how well it dynoed on a few other Evos. It works good!
Just FYI.
Originally Posted by Ted B
Like I said, if the intake system affects the MAF signal (and many do), and therefore affects the A/F, what you get or lose is a crapshoot.
Just FYI.
Just FYI.
TedB, you know as well as any of us that the reported gains are on TUNED cars. In other words, if you don't tune the ECU to recognize and take advantage of the intake, like almost ANY other part on the EVO, it will not show much benefit and possibly a loss. Good job taking the other quote out of context, not showing if it was the same conditions, dyno, etc, blah, blah. I am not really trying to convince you, Ted, of anything. I want to report that on my Evolution and about 6 people close to me that have Evolutions, have all seen dyno proven gains from an aftermarket intake. It really is as simple as that. No where am I saying that every person in the world will see the same. Different tuners, different cars, etc can all play a factor. It just so happens that the guy who tunes my ECU can find extra gains and can tune for the intake. There are tuners out there who don't. Simple to understand, not really arguable. We all know your MAF signal skepticism. Personally, I don't care. My car makes more HP with the intake, pretty MAF signal or not.
BTW, how many intake discussions are we going to have?
BTW, how many intake discussions are we going to have?
Originally Posted by Derek888
So which intake system that you know does not affect the MAF signal?
It is difficult to estimate which aftermarket intakes are the least disruptive to the MAF signal. But since some distortion should be expected, one should plan on dyno tuning his setup after the intake is installed.
Originally Posted by EVOTEXAS
Good job taking the other quote out of context, not showing if it was the same conditions, dyno, etc, blah, blah.
My point is simply this: An aftermarket intake should be expected to affect the MAF, and lends at least an equal chance of creating a power loss as a power gain. In any case, a ratty MAF signal is not desirable. This is simply the reality of it.
Originally Posted by SuperHatch
About 2 weeks ago Vishnu Performance hosted a Dyno Day at TurboTrix in NJ. Prior to the event my Evo was lightly modded... HKS RS Intake, Full Exhaust, BOV, MBC, and Mail-in XFlash ECU from Vishnu. Prior to the event I talked to Shiv about the mods I currently have and what I was adding at the dyno day (cams/gears/headstuds). I told Shiv that I had an RS Intake and he strongly suggested that I put my stock intake back on if I still had it. I had just driven to NC in my Evo, and while I loved the RS's sound driving around town in NJ, after 10 hours each way on the highway, listening to it whistle the whole way, I grew tired of it real quick. That annoyance combined with Shiv's advice led me to take it off and put my stock Airbox back on.
A buddy of mine on this board also had an RS intake and he too was getting tuned by Shiv that weekend. He elected to leave his Intake on his car. Well I headed to TurboTrix and I was the first Evo to spin the rollers, my car made 323HP with a very steady 10:1 A/F mixture. I asked Shiv why he ran the car so rich, and asked if I'd make more power by leaning it to 11:1. He explained (very politely) that it wouldn't make more power, but still took the time to lean out the ECU program for me and run the car again. Not to his surprise, the car made only 1HP more than before. Not worth the lack of a safety net that the 10:1 provided, so we went back to that map.
Now about the HKS Intake. My buddy with the HKS intake was the second Evo to spin the rollers. After a baseline run the car made respectable power, somewhere in the 250 to the wheels area, I don't remember exactly. (The car had full exhaust, the RS intake, BOV, and MBC @ 20lbs) The thing that was scary was the A/F graph... It was VERY erratic. When we asked Shiv about it, he smiled and said he's seen that on every car he's tuned with an intake (notice I didn't say RS intake, I said intake). My hypothesis to this (being an Engineer I always look for reasons) is that the design of the stock airbox makes the airflow over the MAFS very laminar (laminar is smooth non-turbulent). This laminar flow is much more consistent for the MAFS to meter, allowing the ECU to better judge the airflow into the engine. The design of aftermarket intakes that place the filter directly on the MAFS makes for a turbulent flow over the MAFS. This turbulent flow leads to inconsistent A/F reading. While that inconsistency can be improved with tuning, the fact of the matter is that it's still there, and I think tuning over it is putting a bandaid on a wound that needs stitches. My friend decided that he wanted his car tuned for the stock airbox since he didn't want the possibility of a lean spike while on a hard pull.
Well we pulled the airbox off of my car and put it on his for the remainder of the session. With no other changes, just the airbox, the car made 2HP more than with the HKS intake, I know that's not much, could be any number of things causing that change. I'm not trying to say the HKS intake is bad because it takes away power. The point here is the A/F plot. The A/F plot became very stable just like my car with the stock intake. Shiv then did his magic and the car made 300 at the wheels, which was very impressive to me.
I'm not trying to say that the HKS intake is bad and makes you lose power. I don't really think it hurts power output at all. What I do think is potentially dangerous is the erratic A/F readings that result from it's use. While those erratic readings never caused any problems on my car for the 12k miles the intake was on, I'd still like to think that the car is safer now the way it's set up. And maybe someday when I get a bigger turbo I'll be sacrificing a few HP without the intake, but I don't think that's the case where I'm at now. And while on the highway my ears are thanking me, I do miss the sound around town.
In any event, this post is in no way trying to say that one tuners philosophies on tuning are better than any others... what it is doing is informing you of what I've observed. Does this mean intakes are bad? You decide... and to be fair, a number of other Evos getting tuned that weekend all had aftermarket intakes still and all still made good power.
- Steve
A buddy of mine on this board also had an RS intake and he too was getting tuned by Shiv that weekend. He elected to leave his Intake on his car. Well I headed to TurboTrix and I was the first Evo to spin the rollers, my car made 323HP with a very steady 10:1 A/F mixture. I asked Shiv why he ran the car so rich, and asked if I'd make more power by leaning it to 11:1. He explained (very politely) that it wouldn't make more power, but still took the time to lean out the ECU program for me and run the car again. Not to his surprise, the car made only 1HP more than before. Not worth the lack of a safety net that the 10:1 provided, so we went back to that map.
Now about the HKS Intake. My buddy with the HKS intake was the second Evo to spin the rollers. After a baseline run the car made respectable power, somewhere in the 250 to the wheels area, I don't remember exactly. (The car had full exhaust, the RS intake, BOV, and MBC @ 20lbs) The thing that was scary was the A/F graph... It was VERY erratic. When we asked Shiv about it, he smiled and said he's seen that on every car he's tuned with an intake (notice I didn't say RS intake, I said intake). My hypothesis to this (being an Engineer I always look for reasons) is that the design of the stock airbox makes the airflow over the MAFS very laminar (laminar is smooth non-turbulent). This laminar flow is much more consistent for the MAFS to meter, allowing the ECU to better judge the airflow into the engine. The design of aftermarket intakes that place the filter directly on the MAFS makes for a turbulent flow over the MAFS. This turbulent flow leads to inconsistent A/F reading. While that inconsistency can be improved with tuning, the fact of the matter is that it's still there, and I think tuning over it is putting a bandaid on a wound that needs stitches. My friend decided that he wanted his car tuned for the stock airbox since he didn't want the possibility of a lean spike while on a hard pull.
Well we pulled the airbox off of my car and put it on his for the remainder of the session. With no other changes, just the airbox, the car made 2HP more than with the HKS intake, I know that's not much, could be any number of things causing that change. I'm not trying to say the HKS intake is bad because it takes away power. The point here is the A/F plot. The A/F plot became very stable just like my car with the stock intake. Shiv then did his magic and the car made 300 at the wheels, which was very impressive to me.
I'm not trying to say that the HKS intake is bad and makes you lose power. I don't really think it hurts power output at all. What I do think is potentially dangerous is the erratic A/F readings that result from it's use. While those erratic readings never caused any problems on my car for the 12k miles the intake was on, I'd still like to think that the car is safer now the way it's set up. And maybe someday when I get a bigger turbo I'll be sacrificing a few HP without the intake, but I don't think that's the case where I'm at now. And while on the highway my ears are thanking me, I do miss the sound around town.
In any event, this post is in no way trying to say that one tuners philosophies on tuning are better than any others... what it is doing is informing you of what I've observed. Does this mean intakes are bad? You decide... and to be fair, a number of other Evos getting tuned that weekend all had aftermarket intakes still and all still made good power.
- Steve
I'm not 'against' anything so long it functions as advertised/claimed.
This is nothing new to me however, as I've been tuning MAF-equipped cars with various aftermarket intakes (some decent, some awful) for a decade. Where this is concerned, what looks 'sexy' or 'eye clean' doesn't always work best, or even work well for that matter.
This is nothing new to me however, as I've been tuning MAF-equipped cars with various aftermarket intakes (some decent, some awful) for a decade. Where this is concerned, what looks 'sexy' or 'eye clean' doesn't always work best, or even work well for that matter.