GT35R & SAFC-II dyno sheet & drag street
Jan 26, 2005, 08:03 AM
#32
Originally Posted by fre
I am just saying... I wonder how many of these 350 whp pulls were done just once to get a high number to brag about or how many were actually solid tunes. I am not saying the stock turbo is the suck by any means. I have witnessed a 12.5 and a 12.8 pull on the stocker, but I am just saying that to say his whp is too low is not very telling, because you never know the conditions or circumstances. The proof is in the E.T. and trap speed. By his E.T. and traps I would say he does need work though.
You are right to some point but the truth is that not many (stock turbo) hit the 350WHP (pump) but many have hit the 330WHP or so and that’s pretty quick for a stock turbo... The 350WHP and above that we see is most likely with the 10.5 hot housing and 02 housing. In the end the GT35R is over kill for streets and tracks (not QM track).
Jan 26, 2005, 08:06 AM
#33
Originally Posted by Ted B
Perhaps you should consider the 11sec/120mph trap speeds some are running with the stock turbo. Does that constitute proof enough?
Ted I have seen that once and I believe it was with the bigger hot side as well... Smogi did run very fast and I think it was what ? 117 trap but I know that he is an excellent driver with 16xx and he has many supporting mods. The other guy that hit 11s with stock turbo did say clearly that his evo was running at the edge of disaster. It is possible but it's very hard. In the end the stock turbo is the best spooler period.
Jan 26, 2005, 08:17 AM
#34
It's been demonstrated fairly conclusively that the larger hotside does not increase peak power, but rather gives a boost in midrange torque - which is more significant in street conditions. The larger hotside housing does not increase the ultimate flow capacity of the turbo.
There is more than one person here making right around 400whp and seeing 11sec/120mph trap speeds on the stock turbo, and this is with the *stock* housing.
This is all academic pursuant to making my initial point which simply asks what's good about a much larger, laggier turbo if it isn't performing significantly better than other cars with the stock piece? Again, I make the seemingly logical suggestion that better tuning is in order for the GT35 setup in question.
There is more than one person here making right around 400whp and seeing 11sec/120mph trap speeds on the stock turbo, and this is with the *stock* housing.
This is all academic pursuant to making my initial point which simply asks what's good about a much larger, laggier turbo if it isn't performing significantly better than other cars with the stock piece? Again, I make the seemingly logical suggestion that better tuning is in order for the GT35 setup in question.
Jan 26, 2005, 08:24 AM
#35
Originally Posted by Ted B
It's been demonstrated fairly conclusively that the larger hotside does not increase peak power, but rather gives a boost in midrange torque - which is more significant in street conditions. The larger hotside housing does not increase the ultimate flow capacity of the turbo.
There is more than one person here making right around 400whp and seeing 11sec/120mph trap speeds on the stock turbo, and this is with the *stock* housing.
This is all academic pursuant to making my initial point which simply asks what's good about a much larger, laggier turbo if it isn't performing significantly better than other cars with the stock piece? Again, I make the seemingly logical suggestion that better tuning is in order for the GT35 setup in question.
There is more than one person here making right around 400whp and seeing 11sec/120mph trap speeds on the stock turbo, and this is with the *stock* housing.
This is all academic pursuant to making my initial point which simply asks what's good about a much larger, laggier turbo if it isn't performing significantly better than other cars with the stock piece? Again, I make the seemingly logical suggestion that better tuning is in order for the GT35 setup in question.
The 16G (even with the 10.5) Does not make its peak power at high RPM... It makes its peak as you know in the midrange and that when stock turbo EVOS make the top peak power. Bottom line it does help track times since you have 0 lag and help launch as well. It helps peak in the midrange and it helps trap speeds. The 10.5 does help by 10~20WHP depending on mods.
Jan 26, 2005, 08:41 AM
#36
I don't know what you call 'midrange', but peak power occurring at 6300rpm is not what I refer to as midrange. Perhaps what you intended to say is the 16G is not very efficient at high rpm, which is a well-known fact in this application.
FWIW, the 10.5cm2 hotside housing gives a boost in torque in the midrange, ~4500rpm in my case.
Again, this is purely academic fluff, as it has no bearing on the fact that there is more than one person running around 400whp with the *stock* housing, and they are running 11sec/120mph E.T.s. Not that I advocate trying to wheeze 400whp from the stock turbo, but I do feel it's worth noting that a GT35 making 3071 power is not a particularly noteworthy representation of that setup, that's all.
FWIW, the 10.5cm2 hotside housing gives a boost in torque in the midrange, ~4500rpm in my case.
Again, this is purely academic fluff, as it has no bearing on the fact that there is more than one person running around 400whp with the *stock* housing, and they are running 11sec/120mph E.T.s. Not that I advocate trying to wheeze 400whp from the stock turbo, but I do feel it's worth noting that a GT35 making 3071 power is not a particularly noteworthy representation of that setup, that's all.
Jan 26, 2005, 08:59 AM
#37
Originally Posted by Ted B
I don't know what you call 'midrange', but peak power occurring at 6300rpm is not what I refer to as midrange. Perhaps what you intended to say is the 16G is not very efficient at high rpm, which is a well-known fact in this application.
FWIW, the 10.5cm2 hotside housing gives a boost in torque in the midrange, ~4500rpm in my case.
Again, this is purely academic fluff, as it has no bearing on the fact that there is more than one person running around 400whp with the *stock* housing, and they are running 11sec/120mph E.T.s. Not that I advocate trying to wheeze 400whp from the stock turbo, but I do feel it's worth noting that a GT35 making 3071 power is not a particularly noteworthy representation of that setup, that's all.
FWIW, the 10.5cm2 hotside housing gives a boost in torque in the midrange, ~4500rpm in my case.
Again, this is purely academic fluff, as it has no bearing on the fact that there is more than one person running around 400whp with the *stock* housing, and they are running 11sec/120mph E.T.s. Not that I advocate trying to wheeze 400whp from the stock turbo, but I do feel it's worth noting that a GT35 making 3071 power is not a particularly noteworthy representation of that setup, that's all.
I am just trying to gather as much info as I can to see the best options out there for our cars
. I know that smog with all his supporting mods including the TI turbo did not reach the 400WHP on a dynojet that you mentioned. I have heard about the 400WHP stock turbo but I have never seen that dyno. I am not saying that you are wrong at all but I am just saying that 400WHP on stock turbo is far from being an easy task. Plus I don’t know how long the shaft will hold before it falls apart. Please correct me if I am wrong.Thanks
Jan 26, 2005, 09:10 AM
#38
Newbie
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rancho Cucamonga
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What's the boost set to on 91 and 110l? Seems like there is a ton of power left on the table. Explains the poor times though...that slow of a spoolup coupled with poor top-end power equates to slow times at the track.
Jan 26, 2005, 09:16 AM
#39
Originally Posted by Az3ar
...I know that smog with all his supporting mods including the TI turbo did not reach the 400WHP on a dynojet that you mentioned...I am not saying that you are wrong at all but I am just saying that 400WHP on stock turbo is far from being an easy task...
I simply used it as a point to illustrate my original comment which was just echoed by JP98SS, and should be obvious.
Jan 26, 2005, 10:20 AM
#40
Originally Posted by Ted B
Making 400whp on the stock turbo isn't easy, probably isn't desirable from a long-term reliability standpoint, and isn't what I'd consider within the threshold of diminishing returns.
I simply used it as a point to illustrate my original comment which was just echoed by JP98SS, and should be obvious.
I simply used it as a point to illustrate my original comment which was just echoed by JP98SS, and should be obvious.
Well I would say that the 35r is only going to exceed the 30r units in top end with higher boost. Unless you use the potential of the turbo you obviously won't see the expected gains.
Jan 26, 2005, 10:29 AM
#41
Originally Posted by fre
Well I would say that the 35r is only going to exceed the 30r units in top end with higher boost. Unless you use the potential of the turbo you obviously won't see the expected gains.
so that would put us back at question number one which is why GT35R when you have stock internals on only 2.0 engine?
Jan 26, 2005, 10:46 AM
#42
Newbie
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rancho Cucamonga
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Az3ar
so that would put us back at question number one which is why GT35R when you have stock internals on only 2.0 engine?
Jan 26, 2005, 10:51 AM
#43
Originally Posted by JP98SS
So you can have the bigger turbo...it's just a gigantic pissing contect. Most of the guys will never run the cars hard enough or have the driving skills required to take advantage of their setups. They make huge numbers on the dyno and get smoked by stock turboed cars from stoplight to stoplight.
I don’t know why you are calling it pissing contest when we are trying to see the difference. If you scroll up you will see that I have said nothing but good about the stock turbo. BTW you are right I will loose to many drivers when it comes to racing because I suck at driving
and thats why I am going to the track. I am sure that a Mazda Miata might kill me at the track just because I don’t know how to take a turn fast enough. No one said otherwise
Jan 26, 2005, 10:59 AM
#44
Evolved Member
iTrader: (23)
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,836
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe the car in question would benefit from using a custom flash/S-AFC combo. We recently did a GT35R/AFC combo and made around 380whp on 91 octane at 20psi. This was on the Dyno Dynamics Dyno.
I also this you should consider switching to straight 272 cams and raising the redline to 8000rpm. The GT35R turbo loves boost over 22psi. It really starts to come alive at 25psi. I think for pump gas on a 35R that alcohol injection would also be a benefit.
I also this you should consider switching to straight 272 cams and raising the redline to 8000rpm. The GT35R turbo loves boost over 22psi. It really starts to come alive at 25psi. I think for pump gas on a 35R that alcohol injection would also be a benefit.
