What Gives?: Twin Disc Systems by the numbers
Logic,
Alright, your scales verifies what I said for sure. I must have read wrong as I thought somewhere on here you said that the twin weighed 45 pounds. Sorry, that's what I thought I read.
The powerglide/9 inch is a great idea but I prefer the GM 12 bolt when we do the swaps here, they eat up less HP
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Alright, your scales verifies what I said for sure. I must have read wrong as I thought somewhere on here you said that the twin weighed 45 pounds. Sorry, that's what I thought I read.
The powerglide/9 inch is a great idea but I prefer the GM 12 bolt when we do the swaps here, they eat up less HP
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Originally Posted by dafarmer69
now what is this that the flywheel is not lining up.. why hasnt anyone ever said anything before.. or is this just a fluke.. that is a big prob in my books. and a purchasing factor..
Starter grinding would definatly be an issue for RPS.
dru
Last edited by LogicPerformanc; Feb 9, 2005 at 09:54 AM.
There is for sure a problem with the starter/flywheel alignment. I am not the first one to have this horrible noise from them not being correct. As a matter of fact we asked about it before installing it and were told the problem no longer existed.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Originally Posted by TURBODAWG
FWIW,
I had the HKS GDmax twin disc. It lasted about 35 1/4 miles passes and 5 1/8 miles passes. I had the TSB done on the transmission about a month ago. I found the disc closest to the flywheel was almost completely gone. The one disc sandwiched (the one furthest from the flywheel) was worn about half out. The flywheel and the secondary flywheel had alot of hot spots on it. Also, the disc that was virtually worn out was not worn evenly. It was worn more on the outer diameter of the disc than the inner diameter. It appears that my disc had some warpage as well. I am still running the stock turbo with larger housing. My clutch has a total of about 5500 miles on it.
There seems to be a fundamental design flaw in this clutch mechanism, I don't know if this clutch is made partially by Exedy, becuase HKS uses a different TOB attaching mechanism. I believe the friction materials are similiar though.
I agree that the twin discs will hold alot of torque, but hard drag race launches will cause high wear. I think the triple disc or high capacity pressure plate from Exedy would be a better solution for a drag racer, (no matter how low the torque). It is my opinion that it is the shock loading capacity that is the critical issue in these clutches wearing prematurely, not just torque holding capacity.
The static friction is much higher than the kinetic friction. The kinetic friction is what is involved during the launch. Once engaged fully the static friction creates more than enough holding to hold virtually all the power ANY Evo can make.
Brian
I had the HKS GDmax twin disc. It lasted about 35 1/4 miles passes and 5 1/8 miles passes. I had the TSB done on the transmission about a month ago. I found the disc closest to the flywheel was almost completely gone. The one disc sandwiched (the one furthest from the flywheel) was worn about half out. The flywheel and the secondary flywheel had alot of hot spots on it. Also, the disc that was virtually worn out was not worn evenly. It was worn more on the outer diameter of the disc than the inner diameter. It appears that my disc had some warpage as well. I am still running the stock turbo with larger housing. My clutch has a total of about 5500 miles on it.
There seems to be a fundamental design flaw in this clutch mechanism, I don't know if this clutch is made partially by Exedy, becuase HKS uses a different TOB attaching mechanism. I believe the friction materials are similiar though.
I agree that the twin discs will hold alot of torque, but hard drag race launches will cause high wear. I think the triple disc or high capacity pressure plate from Exedy would be a better solution for a drag racer, (no matter how low the torque). It is my opinion that it is the shock loading capacity that is the critical issue in these clutches wearing prematurely, not just torque holding capacity.
The static friction is much higher than the kinetic friction. The kinetic friction is what is involved during the launch. Once engaged fully the static friction creates more than enough holding to hold virtually all the power ANY Evo can make.
Brian
-M
Originally Posted by MattGold
Exedy does not make the clutches for HKS. HKS uses a PUSH style, all Exedys are a PULL style (along with RPS I believe).
-M
-M
2604-SM001 MITSUBISHI Lancer Evolution 2003-2004 ; Includes Spring Hub Twin Pull Type 4G63BT $1950.00
And I've seen the HKS looks just like an exedy painted.
Chris
Last edited by TalonRcR; Feb 9, 2005 at 09:55 AM. Reason: Well just finishing the quote
Originally Posted by LogicPerformanc
Thanks for the comments Mr. Buschur, your input is always appreciated.
here are the Exedy Twin and RPS Twin on the scale
dru
here are the Exedy Twin and RPS Twin on the scale
dru
Is there a special design that RPS has come up with that has no snap in system? Because the bearing would only accomidate the Exedy Patended method. How does the bearing connect?
-Matt
Originally Posted by MattGold
Just curious - are you *sure* this is an RPS Mitsu application? Ther is no "snap-in" mechinism for the bearing to connect. If this isn't the method in which the RPS uses to engage/disengage the clutch please engliten use how this clutch actually works.
Is there a special design that RPS has come up with that has no snap in system? Because the bearing would only accomidate the Exedy Patended method. How does the bearing connect?
-Matt
Is there a special design that RPS has come up with that has no snap in system? Because the bearing would only accomidate the Exedy Patended method. How does the bearing connect?
-Matt
Chris
Originally Posted by TalonRcR
Quote HKS Website "The HKS multi-plate performance clutch kits are vehicle specific Pull-Type racing clutch applications designed for street-car use. The multiple plate design allows increased friction area and direct power transfer, thus offering greater horsepower and torque holding capacity and light clutch pedal pressure for easier clutch pedal management. The use of rivet-less clutch disks allow for better durability, increased friction area and direct torque transfer, while maintaining a friction material that is both wear and heat resistant. Each multi-plate clutch kit comes with a lightweight chrome-moly flywheel optimizes durability and high performance. The use of very durable and lightweight chrome-moly material with a steel tooth ring makes it possible to construct a thinner flywheel without sacrificing integrity."
2604-SM001 MITSUBISHI Lancer Evolution 2003-2004 ; Includes Spring Hub Twin Pull Type 4G63BT $1950.00
And I've seen the HKS looks just like an exedy painted.
Chris
2604-SM001 MITSUBISHI Lancer Evolution 2003-2004 ; Includes Spring Hub Twin Pull Type 4G63BT $1950.00
And I've seen the HKS looks just like an exedy painted.
Chris
-M
Originally Posted by TalonRcR
I believe your the one who told me exedy lets them use there patent right?
Chris
Chris
Note the snap-in ring on the Exedy, and nothing on the RPS.
-M
Originally Posted by Hooptie157
Funny how Exedy makes the Cusco clutch but I have yet to see a cusco twin plate carbon/metallic fail.
Wait does anyone know of a cusco clutch failing?
Wait does anyone know of a cusco clutch failing?
This is one reason why I am choosing to control boost thru the AEM again to ramp boost up based on vehicle speed.
The HKS is definitely a pull type clutch. The TOB connection method they use is far more robust compared to the Exedy patented type. I wonder who makes it if Exedy doesn't? I did notice that my pedal pressure on the HKS was less than stock. However the Exedy is at least as heavy as stock.
I think the reason the Cusco's don't seem to be failing is the fact that there are more people running the Exedy Twins than the Cusco. Very few people are having the problems with the Exedy unless they drag race frequently. With very few chances of failure, and even fewer units, that would explain the reason you haven't heard of many Cusco failures. Thats my guess.
Brian
I think the reason the Cusco's don't seem to be failing is the fact that there are more people running the Exedy Twins than the Cusco. Very few people are having the problems with the Exedy unless they drag race frequently. With very few chances of failure, and even fewer units, that would explain the reason you haven't heard of many Cusco failures. Thats my guess.
Brian
The RPS Carbon/Carbon clutch is the only clutch we use now on the EVO's we build. It has been the only one that has proven to work as advertised. We haven't had any issues with the clutch and it holds the power all day long. It shifts very smoothly and the engagement is near stock.
The Exedy, Cusco and ATS we have used several times over. They all make loud noises and become a big burden to drive everyday. They have a heavy pedal feel and engage pretty rough.
The RPS
engages like stock
holds 1000ft lbs or torque
no failures
quiet compared to others
we have tested it up to 750hp
it does have a grind during start up. That is the only issue we have ever had. It also pretty much goes away after a month or so of daily driving. It can't be heard once the car is started either.
The Exedy, Cusco and ATS we have used several times over. They all make loud noises and become a big burden to drive everyday. They have a heavy pedal feel and engage pretty rough.
The RPS
engages like stock
holds 1000ft lbs or torque
no failures
quiet compared to others
we have tested it up to 750hp
it does have a grind during start up. That is the only issue we have ever had. It also pretty much goes away after a month or so of daily driving. It can't be heard once the car is started either.
Um I have to dissagree with you on the "heavy feel" RNR. I had the cusco clutch in my car and the peddle was actually lighter than stock. So light infact that the dealership didn't even know I had an aftermarket clutch installed and STILL warrentee my transfer case. They had everyone and their mom test my clutch peddle and even compared it to cars in the showroom. They didn't see a difference therefore they warrenteed the part.
Originally Posted by Hooptie157
Um I have to dissagree with you on the "heavy feel" RNR. I had the cusco clutch in my car and the peddle was actually lighter than stock. So light infact that the dealership didn't even know I had an aftermarket clutch installed and STILL warrentee my transfer case. They had everyone and their mom test my clutch peddle and even compared it to cars in the showroom. They didn't see a difference therefore they warrenteed the part.
will warranty your car even with an aftermarket clutch as long as its equal or better than stock.