and correction to my previous post, i meant to say, "generally spool-up means you reach max boost, where the car is making the most TORQUE." not power... and yes, 9 times out of ten (and that one out of ten times means bad tuning), you will make max torque when you have max boost. reason being is you have the most air and fuel in the cylinder per cycle, which will yield the most cylinder pressures, and most torque on the crankshaft. sorry if that statement caused any confusion.

 

Like previously stated even by yourself, supercharged cars are completely different, and is a waste of time.Its like comapring the textures of apples and oranges, they are both fruit right?.. Now, since you havent driven the car, nor to seem to have ever riden in a car like what we are describing... check this post , also found here on this forum:

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...br#post1697957

Craigbb, is the owner of the car, this is what he posted:
no dyno numbers but i picked up the car today slowboy racing rocks! will have dyno numbers when they get a chance...they did a gt35r 2.3 stroker on a 2004 evo for me with a ton of other parts basically everything you can do is on the car..full spool is at 3500 rpm i would say then it hits hard..i put 200 miles on the car today on the way home 100% flawless!! cold start is good,drivability is great..until boost kicks in the car feels stock..

so if you know anything about turbo cars, when the car is at full boost, is not Peak power. so obviously the power is still climbing after full boost is reached at a lower rpm. That is why some are considering the stroker kits, b/c it helps with spool time.. the quicker the turbo spools, the faster the boost is built and so is the power. hince why a supercharged car is so different b/c the wheel is spinning as fast as the motor can rev b/c its belt driven. Its pretty simple actually.

Mark
SBR

 

On my stock turbo 05 RS I see peak boost of 20.5 at 3300 and peak torque at about 3600. I can't see any curves on the pump gas plot but on the other it shows peak torque at 5800 RPM. Peak torque on the pump gas curve is at 5600, even though we can't see the curve. This leads me to believe full boost is not happening until 5500 RPM or so. Granted they are running 6 psi more and racegas. Mine was on CA 91.


As another take my car makes the following tq numbers on a Dynapack (Same dyno type)
Stock GT35 (Race Gas)
2000 130 114
2500 153 125
3000 190 130
3500 278 170
4000 277 235
4500 270 340
5000 267 425
5500 255 450


Looks like the GT35 catches up at about 4200 and then makes more power (Lots More) from there on.

 

I am really concerned about "bad" information getting out there, so please be 100% sure you do all your research before posting.

Let me start off by simply saying, if this car made max torque the second it made max boost, the motor would scatter in quick fashion. There is no way this is possible, its just that simple.

You want technical reasons? There are a lot of good resources on the net, of which you should read. Absolute temperature, absolute pressure, EVF would all be good reading.

If we could make 400 ft/lbs at 3000 RPM, in a 142 CI motor, with a GT35R, we would be building every WRC rally motor being used today. That would be a beautiful thing!

If you have more questions for me, be really specific, and I will try to answer to the best of my abilities.

Thank you for the props as well.

MGH

 

somethings fishy

 

and what would that be?? just leaving an opened ended post like that is qalmost pointless unless you say why you feel that way?? lol

Mark

 

I just sold my STI to get an EVO to build exactly the same set-up.

From everything I have read about stroker kits with head work & a 35R kit, full boost on pump gas is @ about 3000 - 3500. Listed below is a link to the AMS stroker thread and a quote from Martin from AMS about their kit. There are dyno sheets that match up with the SBR sheets in terms of power & peak torque:

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=125804

Quote from thread:
"We just ran the car at 24psi with water injection and made 501whp and 430ft-lbs of torque. I did some road tuning with this car the last few days and it will start making boost at 2200-2400rpm with 10psi by 3K in 4th gear and 24-25psi by 3500-3600rpm. Awesome car to drive with a very wide powerband, perfect for the street or road course. You have full power and torque from 3500rpm to 8000rpm. Where the stock turbo start to drop power at 6500rpm this thing keeps making power all the way to redline. To compare power bands, the stock turbo hits full boost at around 2.9-3K rpm and makes usable power to 7K rpm, the stroker 35R setup hits full boost at 3.5-3.6K rpm and makes useable power to over 8Krpm. Not only are you making much more power but you are also extending your usable power band, which is very important to having a fast car. Peak HP gives you bragging rights, wide power bands give you a fast street car. If you have high HP and a wide power band then you have the ultimate street/strip car.

-Martin"

This further supports SBR information. As you can see, if you want a 35R with stock like spool, not exactly but only a few hundrend rpms slower, you need a stroker, full head work & intake & exhaust manifolds.

Also, there is more to a stroker kit then just running a larger turbo, you will be making significantly more torque in the lower RPMs, which will make the EVO even more a lot fun to drive on the streets....

Just my 2 cents....

 

Do you have a package deal on a full 2.3 buildup with head? I have the cores, just looking for a fairly local shop.. PM me if possible..

 

the dyno numbers graphs etc are nice i just have to say you need to ride in a stroked evo w/a gt35r..today i took my friend for a few spirited wot pulls outside the city he was holding onto the armrest looking pale..this car hits like a motorcycle when it reaches full spool..the spool up to be honest feels better then stock to me and i drove a stock gsr for 3k miles before we did this build..its drives like stock and spools the same just multiply the power x two..yummy!

 

i think you are confused about some of this. your car absolutely makes max TORQUE when you have max boost, assuming you have the timing advanced properly, and your running max power rich (like around 11:1 a/f). if you want to get technical, i'm ready. good resources are not found on the net to start... i have an engineering degree and am seeking my masters focused around automotive control systems. published books are a far better resource then anything i say, or anyone on the internet will say.

now, to clarify the point i think you are missing:

max torque is when the FORCE of the piston is the greatest on the crankshaft. this happens when you have max pressure in the cylinder due to combustion. your only going to get max pressure if your timing is right, working in conjuntion with the boost pressures, and the fuel quantity. if you have max boost, your going to have max fuel delivery and hopefully have the timing adjusted so that your ignition is giving optimal FORCE on the piston without causing detonation but still closest to TDC. now with all this adjusted properly, at max boost is the time you will see max torque. torque is a force and is NOT POWER, it is also independant of RPM. there are a few things that will effect torque such as airflow parameters, which are determined by port sizes and valve lift, also exhaust back pressures (and many many other things, but i think i listed the important ones). because most of those parameters are also fixed values it wont change much from one rpm level to another. however flow properties do change slightly because of the increase in velocity so there are spikes and valleys in the torque curves because of this. so what did all this techno babble tell us? max torque is realized at max boost pressures. if you keep your boost constant, your torque will NOT increase with rpm (within say +-10%). that is shown by the supercharged cobra torque curve i showed earlier. and yes, superchargers work by the EXACT same principle as the turbo does. shoving more air into the engine generates more torque. the means of pressurizing the air is where the two differ.

so if i am wrong, please explain why you said this: "Let me start off by simply saying, if this car made max torque the second it made max boost, the motor would scatter in quick fashion. There is no way this is possible, its just that simple. "

my only assumption is that your confusing torque to power. power is related to the force and rpm (technically it is a force over time). the horsepower is the torque multipled by the RPM divided by the unit conversion factor of 5252. of course your not going to see max power at max boost, you will see max power at a high boost level at a high RPM.

hope that clarifys, and certain if i have wrong information someone please correct me.

now i just want one simple question answered... if you are making max boost at 3000-3500 rpm, why is your torque so low?

i mean, a GT35R at max boost is absolutely going to be flowing more air then the stock turbo at the same guage pressure level, so i would assume a GT35R at 22psi would make more torque then a bone stock evo at 17psi right? well, my stock evo with a tune, pulled 250 ftlb of torque at 3500ish rpm, which is to say over 100ftlb more then your plot.

last, all these answer can be cleared up by simply throwing the car on a dyno, putting an electronic boost gauge on it and dynoing it while datalogging the boost with the RPM level. of course this can be done without the dyno now, but you just need any old data logging software.

oh and if you can make full boost by 3000-3500 rpm, i will most certainly be a future customer on a GT35R with a stroker kit

 

damn it sounds like so much fun!!! iwanna have that much horse power!!! i couldn't imagine giving a motorcycle a run for it's money from a stop.... but all in due time.

 

Hey Kevin,

Head design and the characteristics of a long stroke have a lot more to do with max torque than when you reach your target boost pressure. So does intake manifold design. Most head work, cams, intake manifolds etc are designed to increase upper RPM power. I actually have plots of my boost pressure VS RPM as well as torque and HP vs RPM and even stock the boost peak did not matched the torque peak.... peak torque was at 4000 RPM stock. Now, with 375 HP on pump gas my torque peak starts at 4000 and lasts untill 5,500. In each case the torque peak does not match when the boost pressure reached my target boost.

Later,

Keith

 

30psi = 600+awhp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

nice numbers

 

What is you mods?