Buschur! Whats that new secret???
Done. In the mail to Al. 5 of these left on Thursday. Now the burden in on Al.
He is going to test these on back to back to back dyno pulls. Then he is going remove the "chip" and test again. Then post the dyno results with AFR's to show what happens with the stock computer and no cool downs.
Al and I discussed the new "chip" (not actually a chip but that is what we are calling it) and I don't think we are going to sell it. Going to offer it to guys for TRACK USE only, probably with the Buschur Flash and for a minimal fee to anyone who already has a flash from either of us. It is for TRACK USE only as you will not like it for daily everyday use. This new "chip" keeps the fan on and the coolant tempurature setting for the ECU at an exact tempurature constantly. This helps to keep the engine at its coolest (fan being on) and the AFR's and tune exactly the same.
In a case where you think there is a chance that the engine could possibly overheat I recommend installing a secondary water tempurature gauge to monitor engine temps. The factory gauge will ready constant regardless of actual engine temps.
I don't know of a single EVO overheating yet unless it was already damaged from a head gasket or something, so the fear of this is slim.
This is really going to help many of you out, glad we could come up with it. As I said, it will come standard with the new Buschur Flashes we do and if you have one of our old ones just pay us maybe $5-$7 for shipping and the part and it's yours.
I DO WANT AL TO TEST IT FIRST. I won't be sending any until he finishes up some testing.
Thank you all.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
He is going to test these on back to back to back dyno pulls. Then he is going remove the "chip" and test again. Then post the dyno results with AFR's to show what happens with the stock computer and no cool downs.
Al and I discussed the new "chip" (not actually a chip but that is what we are calling it) and I don't think we are going to sell it. Going to offer it to guys for TRACK USE only, probably with the Buschur Flash and for a minimal fee to anyone who already has a flash from either of us. It is for TRACK USE only as you will not like it for daily everyday use. This new "chip" keeps the fan on and the coolant tempurature setting for the ECU at an exact tempurature constantly. This helps to keep the engine at its coolest (fan being on) and the AFR's and tune exactly the same.
In a case where you think there is a chance that the engine could possibly overheat I recommend installing a secondary water tempurature gauge to monitor engine temps. The factory gauge will ready constant regardless of actual engine temps.
I don't know of a single EVO overheating yet unless it was already damaged from a head gasket or something, so the fear of this is slim.
This is really going to help many of you out, glad we could come up with it. As I said, it will come standard with the new Buschur Flashes we do and if you have one of our old ones just pay us maybe $5-$7 for shipping and the part and it's yours.
I DO WANT AL TO TEST IT FIRST. I won't be sending any until he finishes up some testing.
Thank you all.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Thanks David - another great idea of yours!
The only real weak link of the stock ecu thus far for racing has been the overly severe factory COOLANT TEMP ENRICHMENT tables. Sadly, thus far I have NOT been able to crack the code on altering the collant temp adjustment in the factory ecu.
Stock - the car will go rich by up to 1 full point as the collant temp rises on a normal series of dyno pulls or a racing type activity be it road racing or drag racing.
The new "chip" serves to arrest the collant enrichment and hold the a/f at the ideal level and mainatin the power as the collant temps rise slightly. The stock settings are super conservative and rob you of power when you are driving agressively. Many people trying to get their cars dyno tuned come up with overly rich maps due to limited air flow on many dynos causing collant temps to rise.
With the "chip" installed your ecu reads the collant temp as normal and stabilizes the a/f target at a normal level.
When using the "chip" the use of higher octane fuel is suggested to provide a extra margin of saftey. Also, David's idea about a secondary collant temp gauge is a good precaution.
Those who are ambitious could wire in the "chip" with a two position toggle switch so you can switch from factory collant enrichment to the "chip" controlled setting from inside the cockpit.
There are NO plans to offer this item through Dyno Flash. The only way to obtain this item is through Buschur Racing. After testing is done, tuning changes (if any) will be incorporated with future versions of the Buschur Flash.
The only real weak link of the stock ecu thus far for racing has been the overly severe factory COOLANT TEMP ENRICHMENT tables. Sadly, thus far I have NOT been able to crack the code on altering the collant temp adjustment in the factory ecu.
Stock - the car will go rich by up to 1 full point as the collant temp rises on a normal series of dyno pulls or a racing type activity be it road racing or drag racing.
The new "chip" serves to arrest the collant enrichment and hold the a/f at the ideal level and mainatin the power as the collant temps rise slightly. The stock settings are super conservative and rob you of power when you are driving agressively. Many people trying to get their cars dyno tuned come up with overly rich maps due to limited air flow on many dynos causing collant temps to rise.
With the "chip" installed your ecu reads the collant temp as normal and stabilizes the a/f target at a normal level.
When using the "chip" the use of higher octane fuel is suggested to provide a extra margin of saftey. Also, David's idea about a secondary collant temp gauge is a good precaution.
Those who are ambitious could wire in the "chip" with a two position toggle switch so you can switch from factory collant enrichment to the "chip" controlled setting from inside the cockpit.
There are NO plans to offer this item through Dyno Flash. The only way to obtain this item is through Buschur Racing. After testing is done, tuning changes (if any) will be incorporated with future versions of the Buschur Flash.
Originally Posted by DynoFlash
Many people trying to get their cars dyno tuned come up with overly rich maps due to limited air flow on many dynos causing collant temps to rise.
Is there any way to address the coolant temp rises more directly rather than just hacking the sensor? What about a cooler thermostat or a bigger radiator?
Originally Posted by EVO8LTW
I think you have it backwards. When you tune with the coolant temps elevated you end up with an overly lean tune when you are back on the street and the high coolant temp enrichment isn't in play.
Is there any way to address the coolant temp rises more directly rather than just hacking the sensor? What about a cooler thermostat or a bigger radiator?
Is there any way to address the coolant temp rises more directly rather than just hacking the sensor? What about a cooler thermostat or a bigger radiator?
Thanks for your brain fart though.
Take it easy. I wasn't acusing YOU of making mistakes in tuning people's cars and not taking coolant temp into consideration. I'm just making the observation that if the absolute AFR on the dyno (what shows on the dyno plot) is spot on with poor air circulation when coolant temps are elevated, then when you drive the car on the street with normal air circulation the car will run leaner than it did on the dyno until the coolant temp comes up to a comparable temperature. I think this explains people who have had their cars tuned, seen the AFR in an acceptable range on the wideband with their own eyes while the car was being tuned, and then seen a much leaner AFR with their own eyes when they go to a dyno day later on.
EVO8LTW,
Al new what you meant I think. He is saying, he monitors the coolant temps when he is tuning, whether it be on the dyno or on the street. He will not make adjustments to the maps if the coolant temps were above the tempurature when the factory ECU makes the car run richer.
I have seen it first hand. I try and make another pull right away and AL is yelling, "You have to wait, hold on...." First time it happened I told him he was full of ****. He proved me very wrong.
If anything when Al is done with a tune when the coolant temps get hot the car gets extremely rich, this is the cause of many guys seeing low dyno numbers when they dyno right off the street after a drive to the dyno. This new "chip" is going to fix that.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Al new what you meant I think. He is saying, he monitors the coolant temps when he is tuning, whether it be on the dyno or on the street. He will not make adjustments to the maps if the coolant temps were above the tempurature when the factory ECU makes the car run richer.
I have seen it first hand. I try and make another pull right away and AL is yelling, "You have to wait, hold on...." First time it happened I told him he was full of ****. He proved me very wrong.
If anything when Al is done with a tune when the coolant temps get hot the car gets extremely rich, this is the cause of many guys seeing low dyno numbers when they dyno right off the street after a drive to the dyno. This new "chip" is going to fix that.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Originally Posted by EVO8LTW
I think you have it backwards. When you tune with the coolant temps elevated you end up with an overly lean tune when you are back on the street and the high coolant temp enrichment isn't in play.
Is there any way to address the coolant temp rises more directly rather than just hacking the sensor? What about a cooler thermostat or a bigger radiator?
Is there any way to address the coolant temp rises more directly rather than just hacking the sensor? What about a cooler thermostat or a bigger radiator?
But, at any rate, this is a fairly economical "mod" that won't necessarily "fix" the problem, just prolong the consequences. I'd rather spend the money on a cool t-stat and big aluminum radiator than a switch that may or may not be the right way to do things.
Disclaimer: The above statement is my opinion. Don't let it get you too excited.
Originally Posted by 4G63>OOOO
I won't get into who's backwards here and who's not, because as time has told the story, every time you try to argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and then they go and beat you with experience.
But, at any rate, this is a fairly economical "mod" that won't necessarily "fix" the problem, just prolong the consequences. I'd rather spend the money on a cool t-stat and big aluminum radiator than a switch that may or may not be the right way to do things.
Disclaimer: The above statement is my opinion. Don't let it get you too excited.
But, at any rate, this is a fairly economical "mod" that won't necessarily "fix" the problem, just prolong the consequences. I'd rather spend the money on a cool t-stat and big aluminum radiator than a switch that may or may not be the right way to do things.
Disclaimer: The above statement is my opinion. Don't let it get you too excited.
Originally Posted by EVO8LTW
Take it easy. I wasn't acusing YOU of making mistakes in tuning people's cars and not taking coolant temp into consideration. I'm just making the observation that if the absolute AFR on the dyno (what shows on the dyno plot) is spot on with poor air circulation when coolant temps are elevated, then when you drive the car on the street with normal air circulation the car will run leaner than it did on the dyno until the coolant temp comes up to a comparable temperature. I think this explains people who have had their cars tuned, seen the AFR in an acceptable range on the wideband with their own eyes while the car was being tuned, and then seen a much leaner AFR with their own eyes when they go to a dyno day later on.
I tune the car as the same collant temps you will find when driving down the highway at 55 mph.
When the collant temps are colder - or hotter than that the a/f target will adjust richer.
When you dial the car in at normal operating temprature then it only goes richer if you are not at normal operating temprature.
The whole purpose of the "chip" device is to limit and control this variation in a/f ratios which is a feature of the stock ecu which is OVERLY conservative IMHO. Unless your collant temprature is literally starting to boil you will not need a richer a/f than the targets which I shoot for in the normal operating temp paramater.
Note - AIR temp fueling compensation remains in FULL force and effect.
Al, we are in agreement. Because you take coolant temp into consideration, your tunes will only go richer on the street with elevated coolant temps. For those who don't pay attention to coolant temps when tuning and do a lot of dyno pulls close together and tune AFR when coolant temps are elevated, then they tend to inadvertently make the car too lean. I've made this mistake myself with my SAFC and wideband.
What is ironic is that some people like to do a lot of back-to-back pulls either on the street or the dyno when they are tuning on the theory that this hot lap approach allows them to tune for the worst case scenario (like autocrossing or road racing where you tend to be on boost most of the time). The irony is that this tuning approach actually makes the car run leaner in the heat of battle than had the tune been done at normal coolant temp levels.
What is ironic is that some people like to do a lot of back-to-back pulls either on the street or the dyno when they are tuning on the theory that this hot lap approach allows them to tune for the worst case scenario (like autocrossing or road racing where you tend to be on boost most of the time). The irony is that this tuning approach actually makes the car run leaner in the heat of battle than had the tune been done at normal coolant temp levels.
Originally Posted by DynoFlash
Rest assured, when I am tuning a car on the road or dyno I am very aware of the exact collant temprature.
I tune the car as the same collant temps you will find when driving down the highway at 55 mph.
When the collant temps are colder - or hotter than that the a/f target will adjust richer.
When you dial the car in at normal operating temprature then it only goes richer if you are not at normal operating temprature.
The whole purpose of the "chip" device is to limit and control this variation in a/f ratios which is a feature of the stock ecu which is OVERLY conservative IMHO. Unless your collant temprature is literally starting to boil you will not need a richer a/f than the targets which I shoot for in the normal operating temp paramater.
Note - AIR temp fueling compensation remains in FULL force and effect.
I tune the car as the same collant temps you will find when driving down the highway at 55 mph.
When the collant temps are colder - or hotter than that the a/f target will adjust richer.
When you dial the car in at normal operating temprature then it only goes richer if you are not at normal operating temprature.
The whole purpose of the "chip" device is to limit and control this variation in a/f ratios which is a feature of the stock ecu which is OVERLY conservative IMHO. Unless your collant temprature is literally starting to boil you will not need a richer a/f than the targets which I shoot for in the normal operating temp paramater.
Note - AIR temp fueling compensation remains in FULL force and effect.
