DO NOT FLASH!!!

 

What the hell are all these people talking about with the "GET A FLASH!!!" I see that only 2 people noticed that he actually has "S-AFC" in his sig. He doesn't need a flash anymore than I need a 3rd nut. What he needs are...

1) A whack upside the head for spending SO MUCH MONEY ON SO MANY PARTS without even knowing how to use his S-AFC or that an S-AFC _IS_ his flash. Yes, a flash does a few more things than the S-AFC, but they are both tuning devices and can both be used to get the same gains. In fact, self-tuning with an S-AFC can glean quite a bit more hp/tq than a mail-in flash, because it is suited to the exact specifications of the car/boost/gas/weather. A custom tune is obviously going to rival an S-AFC tune, but even then, Al (for example) leaves room for improvement so as not to be held liable for cars blowing up all over the country.

AND

2) To either learn how to use his S-AFC or find someone who does...

 

Neither of these are true. A retail S-AFC II costs more than a base mail-in Dynoflash, but that's the only point at which an safc costs more. A mail-in flash in no way nets more power than a properly-tuned s-afc. Even a custom tune can't rival an s-afc, because it's only set for one set of conditions, but we know that conditions constantly change (temp/humidity/gas/boost/mods). Flashes are great and serve their purpose, but I believe my 12.2s and ~111mph with a catback and stock cams show that the s-afc is quite capable of making good power, even in the hands of a novice like myself.

Oh, and the s-afc I have can be bought for $100 nowadays. I bought it for $200 four years ago and gain a ton of power without having my ECU touched whatsoever.

 

EH, afc doesn't do it for me. can't run much boost in the mid range because there is too much timing there. not gonna gain the kind of power you will get with a flash.

i personnally don't like flashes either, but he asked specifically about that and it would GREATLY improve his power.

obviously i prefer a more tunable device than the afc and hate the flash that you are "stuck" with without the ability to make changes

 

ive had an afc on my previous car, i know how it works and its capabilities. and ESPECIALLY for people who don't tune their own stuff. if you think a properly tuned safc and stock ecu rivals a good custom tune, you are insane. all it does it pull fuel out....thats it.(even though, it does'nt really even do that, just tricks the ECU on the MAF readings)

 

but im not going to argue with you, because i like you

 

He asked about a flash, but he doesn't need a flash. He's asking, because he doesn't know WHAT he needs. Why would he go and spend more money on a flash when he already has a tuning device. If he's not making good power now on the S-AFC, then one of two things is wrong:

1) the S-AFC is not tuned properly

or

2) he has a much more major problem that needs to be found (boost leak, engine compression, slipping clutch, bov installed wrong, cams installed wrong, etc). There's not enough info to make a guess on any of these, so the first thing he should do is make sure the S-AFC is tuned properly.

Bottom line is that a car with his mods and a properly-tuned S-AFC will NOT gain anything measurable from a flash. In fact, he'd have to either remove the s-afc or return the settings to 0, get the ecu flashed, then start the tuning over again to know what fine-tuning adjustments to do with the s-afc.

I don't get too much timing in the mid-range when running high boost, so I'm not sure what that's about. Maybe you were referring to larger turbos? There are levels of tuning the Evo at which an S-AFC is definitely not the best choice, but for his bolt-ons, it should work just fine. A flash won't just randomly give more HP than an S-AFC, especially not a mail-in...

 

Yeah, your probably right, timing has little to do with power. Just tweek your air signal a bit and you can get everything out of the car.

 

I'm a firm believer in "make the most with what you have." Since this guy already has an safc, why not use it? Safc will definately get the job done.

 

You can't control timing or boost with the SAFC. If he already has an SAFC and a boost controller thats great but he should still get reflashed and then use his SAFC to fine tune his reflash. Pretty much every generic flash I've seen tend to run a little fat still. At least with a flash his timing and boost control will be closer to optimum for what he has on the car. The cams alone should justify a reflash.

 

What do you mean? I only tune according to my timing with AFR secondary. It seems to work quite well as you can see in my sig. As I've said many times, I think flashes are great, and they do make reliable power, but they are not my preference. In this case, the thread originator ALREADY HAS an S-AFC. Why would he waste money on switching his tuning devices when he can just get his current one tuned properly while also taking advantage of the fact that he can optimize his tune for ANY SITUATION, be it warm/cold, high boost/low boost, humid/arid, pump gas/race gas, and/or new mods without having to send his ECU somewhere?

I'm quite sure you know far more about "tuning" than I do, and if so, I would not expect this sort of response from you. If I can tune my cat-back and mbc to a 12.2 at 111 with a beautiful timing curve all the way to 7600 rpm in 4th, then I think the s-afc must not be all that bad...

 

He already has boost control, so that's a non-issue and is no reason to get a flash.

As far as the timing, yes, it would be even better to have a mail-in flash for his mod setup and then to fine-tune with the S-AFC, but he doesn't NEED to do that. He can pull out lots of HP on those mods with a properly-tuned S-AFC by indirectly controlling the timing through the fuel settings. I just think people are looking pas the root of the problem. If he has a TUNED S-AFC with these mods, then a flash would NOT be the answer. He needs to figure out what's going on before he just buys another part.

If he doesn't care to figure it out and doesn't mind spending MORE money, then sure, he could just uninstall the S-AFC and mail-in his ECU, or find a place/time to get it custom flashed...

 

what i meant by too much timing is, running more than 21psi some timing needs to be pulled.....otherwise, your edging on dangerous.

you running those speeds is great, probably not too safe though

 

Not trying to add fuel to the fire but, I'm more curious than anything. If all your tuning with is a SAFC how do you know what your igniton timing looks like? Does it log ignition timing?

 

The S-AFC isn't the logging device, it's just the tuning device. I log timing with my pocketlogger, and I adjust my S-AFC settings according to where I see knock (dips or flat spots in the timing curve).

Jeff, yes, if I run more than 21psi on pump, then the ECU pulls timing automatically if I'm too lean. I add fuel and adjust the boost down if I have to in that case, but I try to tune it to 20-21psi on 93oct so that my timing curve is just about linearly-increasing through the power band up to a max of 19-20 above 7k rpm. With a mix of 104/93oct, I turn the boost to 22-23 and lean out the S-AFC en route to an even nicer timing curve that maxes at 21 at 7500 in 4th. I did 5-6 straight runs in the 12.22-12.34 range at this setting in 80 degree weather with all the logs being almost 100% identical. No knock and nothing too lean, but definitely aggressive.