2.2L vs. 2.3L Stroker Kits
Originally Posted by joeymia
So if I was to get a 4g64 crank what stops me from building my own stroker. Shops like Bushur and AMS, what do they have thats so different? Could I just get a 4g64 crank and pick which ever rods and pistons i want and assemble it?
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Cape Girardeau, MO
sorry to hijack but it is along the same line i guess.
will this work on any 4g63 block? i have an old talon that has seen its last days on the road and was wondering if that block could be built the same as the evo block and swapped out when finished?
will this work on any 4g63 block? i have an old talon that has seen its last days on the road and was wondering if that block could be built the same as the evo block and swapped out when finished?
Last edited by jay_are; Sep 1, 2005 at 12:08 AM.
Evolving Member
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: In my house
Originally Posted by DynoFlash
Buschur is using Crower rods and a specially desinged piston with very favorable charateristics for stroker use. He has reported to me 9,000 plus rpms with no ill results. I intend to fully test this storker to the limits of physics.
Originally Posted by Big Boost
Al, quick couple of questions for you. At these high of RPMs, how long do you think the motor will last? A entire racing season?
For someone like me that does not want to ever replace the motor again, what do you believe are the limits to a Buschur Built 2.3 Stroker Motor? Wouldn't more that 8000rpms really be pushing it.
Would getting the block/rods/pistons/crank cryoed & the rods shot peened / and pistons and crank coated increase the longevity of the motor?
For someone like me that does not want to ever replace the motor again, what do you believe are the limits to a Buschur Built 2.3 Stroker Motor? Wouldn't more that 8000rpms really be pushing it.
Would getting the block/rods/pistons/crank cryoed & the rods shot peened / and pistons and crank coated increase the longevity of the motor?
Originally Posted by DynoFlash
I will ask the master himself to come on here and respond
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 56
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From: Wa
Originally Posted by DynoFlash
Why not just buy a Buschur Racing stroker short block - that is what I did - he already did all the research over the past 15 years.
all your answers await you:
http://www.buschurracing.com/cgi-bin....cgi?25X376545
http://www.buschurracing.com/cgi-bin....cgi?25X376545
This is what I see as far as 2.2 and 2.3 kits. It is simple math, well for me it is hard math
Anyone using a 2.0 liter block to make a stroker out of and using a 100 mm stroke crank, which is the stock stroke for a 2.4 liter and the same stroke Crower has is going to have the same size engine other than what they choose to bore it too. The other key is what they choose to round their numbers up or down to.
A standard bore 2.0 liter with a 2.4 liter crank in it is 2.25 liters. Now you can call this a 2.2 or you can round it up and call it a 2.3, either way the fact is it is the same engine. Bore it .020 over and it is a 2.26 liter, easier to round up and call it a 2.3 liter. See what I am trying to tell you guys?
As far as kits we have a stroker kit we sell, comes with bearings, pistons, rods, crank shaft etc., same parts we use to build the engine here with, $2300 complete. We use custom J&E pistons (which in my opinion are the key to making it work) a new Mitsubishi 2.4 liter crank etc. Then you have to do the assembly and machine work.
If you send me a good block, main cap and oil jets, I will send you back a completely assembled, balanced and ready stroker engine for $3500.
It is thought and said often that anyone can do the machine work and assembly, I say that is horse sh it. I see too many engines come through here that are junk for it to be true.
Here are a couple of selling points for our engines. John Shepherd is currently running our shortblock in his car. John runs a 1991 AWD Eagle Talon with a 4G63 in it. Alcohol and nitrous. He launches the car at 8,000 rpm and shifts it at 10,000, crosses the finish line at 10,500 rpm. Last weekend he ran 8.13 and 8.14 back-to-back at 177 mph. The engine deal I have with John is when the engine comes out, I get it back to freshen it/replace it, nobody else is to mess with it. The engine was put in the car around June, I have not gotten it back yet! That says something.
We have our stroker engine in our black shop car, it's run 10.31 at 141 mph, we have our in my brothers red car, it's run 10.94 at 134 mph (full weight, a/c, power windows, sound deadener, stock Advan tires, stock wheels, stock big brakes, real daily driver). Both of these cars have seen 10,000 rpm by mistake with no problems.
A customers car I tuned Friday, Matt Smith, just switched from one of our built 2 liters to our stroker engine. He is running all of our parts and a custom GT40 turbo kit I built for him. Car weighs in at 3160 pounds, running normal Nitto 555 radials, stock wheels and brakes etc. Not set up as an exclusive drag car and still is driven/street raced. He ran 10.26 at 144.17 mph on Friday after I tuned it. The car was never run with the new engine until we strapped it on our dyno and flogged the hell out of it. He is crossing the finish line at 8958 rpm at 144.17 mph.
NOW, what do I recommend for RPM on one of our kits, 8,000 rpm max. I do this as the piston speed is just simply retarded with the stroker engines. I do this as if you don't listen to me and you do happen to waste one of them and it is determined it was from over-reving it I am not going to stand behind it. As time goes on if I feel there is no harm in running these stupid high RPM's WE are running now I may recommend something higher.
From the looks of things, honestly, the RPM hasn't been an issue in causing any failures. The highest we have run is 9975 rpm, I called it 10,000 earlier, close enough.
I use only heavy duty billet rods in our stroker kits, I really like the Eagle rods and use them in the 2.0's but for the stroker I won't use them, too much stress at high RPM's. Using the Crower rod gives me a little more piece of mind and adds quite a bit to the cost of us doing the kit.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Anyone using a 2.0 liter block to make a stroker out of and using a 100 mm stroke crank, which is the stock stroke for a 2.4 liter and the same stroke Crower has is going to have the same size engine other than what they choose to bore it too. The other key is what they choose to round their numbers up or down to.
A standard bore 2.0 liter with a 2.4 liter crank in it is 2.25 liters. Now you can call this a 2.2 or you can round it up and call it a 2.3, either way the fact is it is the same engine. Bore it .020 over and it is a 2.26 liter, easier to round up and call it a 2.3 liter. See what I am trying to tell you guys?
As far as kits we have a stroker kit we sell, comes with bearings, pistons, rods, crank shaft etc., same parts we use to build the engine here with, $2300 complete. We use custom J&E pistons (which in my opinion are the key to making it work) a new Mitsubishi 2.4 liter crank etc. Then you have to do the assembly and machine work.
If you send me a good block, main cap and oil jets, I will send you back a completely assembled, balanced and ready stroker engine for $3500.
It is thought and said often that anyone can do the machine work and assembly, I say that is horse sh it. I see too many engines come through here that are junk for it to be true.
Here are a couple of selling points for our engines. John Shepherd is currently running our shortblock in his car. John runs a 1991 AWD Eagle Talon with a 4G63 in it. Alcohol and nitrous. He launches the car at 8,000 rpm and shifts it at 10,000, crosses the finish line at 10,500 rpm. Last weekend he ran 8.13 and 8.14 back-to-back at 177 mph. The engine deal I have with John is when the engine comes out, I get it back to freshen it/replace it, nobody else is to mess with it. The engine was put in the car around June, I have not gotten it back yet! That says something.
We have our stroker engine in our black shop car, it's run 10.31 at 141 mph, we have our in my brothers red car, it's run 10.94 at 134 mph (full weight, a/c, power windows, sound deadener, stock Advan tires, stock wheels, stock big brakes, real daily driver). Both of these cars have seen 10,000 rpm by mistake with no problems.
A customers car I tuned Friday, Matt Smith, just switched from one of our built 2 liters to our stroker engine. He is running all of our parts and a custom GT40 turbo kit I built for him. Car weighs in at 3160 pounds, running normal Nitto 555 radials, stock wheels and brakes etc. Not set up as an exclusive drag car and still is driven/street raced. He ran 10.26 at 144.17 mph on Friday after I tuned it. The car was never run with the new engine until we strapped it on our dyno and flogged the hell out of it. He is crossing the finish line at 8958 rpm at 144.17 mph.
NOW, what do I recommend for RPM on one of our kits, 8,000 rpm max. I do this as the piston speed is just simply retarded with the stroker engines. I do this as if you don't listen to me and you do happen to waste one of them and it is determined it was from over-reving it I am not going to stand behind it. As time goes on if I feel there is no harm in running these stupid high RPM's WE are running now I may recommend something higher.
From the looks of things, honestly, the RPM hasn't been an issue in causing any failures. The highest we have run is 9975 rpm, I called it 10,000 earlier, close enough.
I use only heavy duty billet rods in our stroker kits, I really like the Eagle rods and use them in the 2.0's but for the stroker I won't use them, too much stress at high RPM's. Using the Crower rod gives me a little more piece of mind and adds quite a bit to the cost of us doing the kit.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
EvoM Community Team Leader
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,690
Likes: 708
From: West Coast
If you are planning on doing the work yourself there are things you might not have considered. You need to check alot of things durring assembly, its not just slap the parts in and roll. You will need To check the tollerance between the Main bearings and the Crank, same with the rod bearings and the crank . This is a very time consuming process if you are a first timer. Also you will need to get a pretty accurate torque wrench and an array of different measuring tools just to check piston diameter and Bore. You will need to check Piston to valve clearance. Just to name a few things.
ITHis is of course assuming you want to do it right. Alot of people just throw the parts together and hope for the best. Sometimes it works sometimes it results in a melted engine. In the end i think its cheaper and better for piece of mind to let a proffesional shop take care of all this.
ITHis is of course assuming you want to do it right. Alot of people just throw the parts together and hope for the best. Sometimes it works sometimes it results in a melted engine. In the end i think its cheaper and better for piece of mind to let a proffesional shop take care of all this.
Originally Posted by Biggiesacks
If you are planning on doing the work yourself there are things you might not have considered. You need to check alot of things durring assembly, its not just slap the parts in and roll. You will need To check the tollerance between the Main bearings and the Crank, same with the rod bearings and the crank . This is a very time consuming process if you are a first timer. Also you will need to get a pretty accurate torque wrench and an array of different measuring tools just to check piston diameter and Bore. You will need to check Piston to valve clearance. Just to name a few things.
ITHis is of course assuming you want to do it right. Alot of people just throw the parts together and hope for the best. Sometimes it works sometimes it results in a melted engine. In the end i think its cheaper and better for piece of mind to let a proffesional shop take care of all this.
ITHis is of course assuming you want to do it right. Alot of people just throw the parts together and hope for the best. Sometimes it works sometimes it results in a melted engine. In the end i think its cheaper and better for piece of mind to let a proffesional shop take care of all this.
i have built a couple honda heads: one is t3/t4 turboed b16 head the other vortech supercharged b18c5 head. they've been running strong for ~1 year each.
Dave, I admire your confidence. Ive had a friend who had his motor built and reported some strange noises coming from his engine after only a few thousand miles or less....which seems to worry me.
For the sake of arguement, lets just say this happens to your motor...if in fact that it was not ill treated and there was a genuine problem, I'd assume I wouldn't have to worry too much?
All Im saying is that your confidence in your product has always been paramount, a great selling point and a focus of much admiration. Im just curious if you feel that a 2.3 litre engine of such nature has a life expectancy which is less than that of a 2.3. All things aside, lets just say for a 450whp, street driven vehicle that see's occassional racing. Just trying to gather plenty of info. Thanks
For the sake of arguement, lets just say this happens to your motor...if in fact that it was not ill treated and there was a genuine problem, I'd assume I wouldn't have to worry too much?
All Im saying is that your confidence in your product has always been paramount, a great selling point and a focus of much admiration. Im just curious if you feel that a 2.3 litre engine of such nature has a life expectancy which is less than that of a 2.3. All things aside, lets just say for a 450whp, street driven vehicle that see's occassional racing. Just trying to gather plenty of info. Thanks
I have no written policy for warranty on our engines. Generally speaking if an engine we did has some type of failure it is from a long line of high boost/high rpm and just wears out, or the most common is from detonation and a bad tune. The other is a complete bone head move of forgetting something important or screwing up the install. (i.e. not tightening the oil drain plug and loosing all the engine oil, dropping something in the timing cover, dropping something into a cylinder, cam timing wrong etc.)
So in short, if you buy an engine from us and something happens this is how we handle it. If you pull the engine out then I request that it is NOT disassembled and you ship it back to us. We then take it to our machine shop and let them pull it apart. They will make the call as to what happened and we go from there. If it is something I did it is free and I will generaly take care of some of the other expenses along with a free repair. If it is something YOU did then I will at worst work out a killer price for fixing it just to help you out.
If we installed the engine here and built the engine and it fails the entire bill is free including gaskets, labor, timing belt, repairs etc, if it was our fault.
Now you ask how do YOU know who's fault it is? Well on that I guess you have to take my word for it, my history of honesty should be enough.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
So in short, if you buy an engine from us and something happens this is how we handle it. If you pull the engine out then I request that it is NOT disassembled and you ship it back to us. We then take it to our machine shop and let them pull it apart. They will make the call as to what happened and we go from there. If it is something I did it is free and I will generaly take care of some of the other expenses along with a free repair. If it is something YOU did then I will at worst work out a killer price for fixing it just to help you out.
If we installed the engine here and built the engine and it fails the entire bill is free including gaskets, labor, timing belt, repairs etc, if it was our fault.
Now you ask how do YOU know who's fault it is? Well on that I guess you have to take my word for it, my history of honesty should be enough.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
The Bushur Stroker sounds like a solid way to go... when the money is available that will be my choice...
David,
If money and time were not important, what are your thoughts on having a custom crank from crower made for a 92 or 94 mil stroke instead of using the 100 mil one from the 4g64?
If money and time were not important, what are your thoughts on having a custom crank from crower made for a 92 or 94 mil stroke instead of using the 100 mil one from the 4g64?