ACT clutch premature wear? help!
Originally Posted by ACTman
Since you decided to start a thread, I guess I might as well post as well. I took a good look at the photos you sent to Richard. The clutch is cooked, not worn. As someone else pointed out, it actually seems like there is quite a bit of material on the disc so it is not like you wore it down a lot. But in order to melt the linings to where the fibers are exposed, blue the flywheel and undoubtedly warp it like you did, you let the clutch get super hot. What generates heat is excessive slippage. I doubt that it is the clutch not being able to hold the power, unless you are making some crazy numbers. Maybe you are driving the car gently, but from the looks of it you are driving the clutch to death. There may be other factors like if the restrictor if it is still in, or possibly misadjusted until it is preloaded. Are you sure the previous owner was nice to it? The only thing I found odd from the photos is that the flywheel looks worse than the pressure plate. Usually it is the other way around. Regardless the clutch was allowed to slip too long for it's own good.
We have plenty of happy customers running good numbers and their clutches are lasting very well. Our clutches will hold a lot of power and give great performance, but you obviously exceeded the heat capacity of the disc, pressure plate and you stock flywheel. The only clutches that will put up with that kind of heat are the carbon/carbon ones, but you shouldn't need to go that extreme.
Keep in mind I am only going by what I see in the photos. It is by no means a complete evaluation and I don't want to discourage you from letting us test the parts.
We have plenty of happy customers running good numbers and their clutches are lasting very well. Our clutches will hold a lot of power and give great performance, but you obviously exceeded the heat capacity of the disc, pressure plate and you stock flywheel. The only clutches that will put up with that kind of heat are the carbon/carbon ones, but you shouldn't need to go that extreme.
Keep in mind I am only going by what I see in the photos. It is by no means a complete evaluation and I don't want to discourage you from letting us test the parts.
My best guess at this point as to why the clutch is badly cooked is the backflow valve in there. The car makes some pretty good power, and that combined with a possibly too pre-emptive backflow valve could have cause the clutch to slip far more than it should have.
But then again, wouldn't I have smelled clutch burning if I was putting in too much heat? I've never smelled clutch in the 3000 miles I've driven' this car.
And yeah, I'm fairly sure the previous owner didn't beat the hell out of it. He knows his stuff, and only had that clutch in there for about 300 miles....definetely not out of the break-in period.
I won't object to sending you the clutch pieces for close inspection, but I need to have a clutch in my car too. Would you PM me and we can discuss my options? Thanks.
Originally Posted by VTECH8TR
Newbie you have NO CLUE what the hell you are talking about. Please don't post stupid **** like this if you don't have firsthand experience with the ACT clutch. I have installed 15 of these so far in evos and only 1 has had a problem. Nothing a light pedal adjustment couldn't fix. Heck one of my personal friends is cutting 1.65 60 foot times with one.
my tires wore out real fast, therefore Yokohama totally sucks. They have no idea how to make tires.
I did not check my alignment, or tire pressure ....my car pulls to the left real bad .....and I did 4 wheel burnouts and donuts several times per day.
....but I blame the tires.
I did not check my alignment, or tire pressure ....my car pulls to the left real bad .....and I did 4 wheel burnouts and donuts several times per day.
....but I blame the tires.
Originally Posted by spm1024
my tires wore out real fast, therefore Yokohama totally sucks. They have no idea how to make tires.
I did not check my alignment, or tire pressure ....my car pulls to the left real bad .....and I did 4 wheel burnouts and donuts several times per day.
....but I blame the tires.
I did not check my alignment, or tire pressure ....my car pulls to the left real bad .....and I did 4 wheel burnouts and donuts several times per day.
....but I blame the tires.
Good point though. Just because its a performance clutch doesn't mean it's invincible.
well im the previous owner and it did only have 300 miles on it when he bought the car. when i had it, it felt perfectly fine. engagement and all... honestly the stock clutch i took out which i beat the crap out of and wore it out in 3k looked in much better condition. yes it was completely worn but the "hot spots" didn't look nearly as bad on the flywheel and pp.
as with the restrictor pill, it was ACT that recommended along with others to leave it because it serves as a "safety" valve for the drivetrain which makes perfectly good sense. i rather f' up the clutch than the "fragile" POS mitsubishi drivetrain.
A lot of people don't think they are abusing their clutch cause they are not always "launching hard". Most think launching hard is dumping the clutch vs. slipping or feathering. Dumping the clutch is not necessarily hard on the clutch but it is on the drivetrain. Now slipping on the otherhand is what kills clutches. This is when the most heat is caused. It doesn't feel like you're abusing the clutch vs when you just dump it but in all actuality it is a million times worse.
Most people that learn to properly launch a car think slipping the clutch is the best way. Well in some cases it is. Such as when you launch a 2 wheel drive car. It's easier to control the clutch for traction issues vs trying to control tires that are spinning. The idea is to get the most power down at the proper time (where ever you torque curve is) without losing traction or too much traction. Another reason why people like to slip the clutch is cause they don't like the feeling like their car is gonna snap in half or at least drivetrain parts (halfshafts,trans, etc,...)
IMO the only way to launch the evo is to dump the clutch. Its an AWD drive car so traction is less of an issue. Plus Mitsubishi's restrictor pill design is enough feathering by itself...
Another thing is that being turbochared, if you are slipping the clutch while you hit your maximum torque range it's gonna create even more heat and it'll even be harder for the clutch to catch up. It's better to be engaged right before the turbo hits full spoll vs during full spoll. cause if not this is where imo the wear is all caused from. TOO MUCH HEAT AND THE MORE THE CLUTCH SLIPS THE MORE IT WEARS!!! Its very simple.
But remember "dumping" the clutch too hard will break other things. You have to find the happy median. It took me awhile but i did figure how to launch the car with the stock clutch. I was really looking forward to trying the ACT but sold the car before i could.
For all you haters out there, i researched the heck out of the "best" clutch and came to determine the ACT has a proven "track" record (no pun intended) for being a top notch clutch. EXEDY has it's own share of complaints. So for me neither clutch is bullet proof so the price definitely sold me on the ACT. I just wish I could've tried it out.
Anywho i don't know if i made any sense but looking at those pics there looks to be a ton of heat caused from something. To me it can only be one thing... too much slipping of the clutch either from your left foot or maybe it went out of adjustment some how.
As for installing it wrong, maybe i put the flywheel on where the pressure plate goes or something. actually i didn't say i've done other evos but have done plenty of other clutches. As with the assembly with the clutch it's pretty much just like everything else. Only way you can install it wrong is by leaving something out like a bolt or something or. Theres noway you can put it in backwards, upside down or any other way but the correct way. Yes the Evo is one tough sob to swap a clutch out but the only difference really is that it's harder to get to the clutch vs most other cars. Once you pop the tranny off, it's pretty straight forward. It looks like you pulled it yourself right? Just look at it and tell me how you could install it wrong?
well if you don't think you slipped the clutch too much, be sure to check the adjustment on the new one when you get it back in. I don't know how exactly the restrictor pill works but maybe that could malfunction somehow?
well goodluck to ya!!!
as with the restrictor pill, it was ACT that recommended along with others to leave it because it serves as a "safety" valve for the drivetrain which makes perfectly good sense. i rather f' up the clutch than the "fragile" POS mitsubishi drivetrain.
A lot of people don't think they are abusing their clutch cause they are not always "launching hard". Most think launching hard is dumping the clutch vs. slipping or feathering. Dumping the clutch is not necessarily hard on the clutch but it is on the drivetrain. Now slipping on the otherhand is what kills clutches. This is when the most heat is caused. It doesn't feel like you're abusing the clutch vs when you just dump it but in all actuality it is a million times worse.
Most people that learn to properly launch a car think slipping the clutch is the best way. Well in some cases it is. Such as when you launch a 2 wheel drive car. It's easier to control the clutch for traction issues vs trying to control tires that are spinning. The idea is to get the most power down at the proper time (where ever you torque curve is) without losing traction or too much traction. Another reason why people like to slip the clutch is cause they don't like the feeling like their car is gonna snap in half or at least drivetrain parts (halfshafts,trans, etc,...)
IMO the only way to launch the evo is to dump the clutch. Its an AWD drive car so traction is less of an issue. Plus Mitsubishi's restrictor pill design is enough feathering by itself...
Another thing is that being turbochared, if you are slipping the clutch while you hit your maximum torque range it's gonna create even more heat and it'll even be harder for the clutch to catch up. It's better to be engaged right before the turbo hits full spoll vs during full spoll. cause if not this is where imo the wear is all caused from. TOO MUCH HEAT AND THE MORE THE CLUTCH SLIPS THE MORE IT WEARS!!! Its very simple.
But remember "dumping" the clutch too hard will break other things. You have to find the happy median. It took me awhile but i did figure how to launch the car with the stock clutch. I was really looking forward to trying the ACT but sold the car before i could.
For all you haters out there, i researched the heck out of the "best" clutch and came to determine the ACT has a proven "track" record (no pun intended) for being a top notch clutch. EXEDY has it's own share of complaints. So for me neither clutch is bullet proof so the price definitely sold me on the ACT. I just wish I could've tried it out.
Anywho i don't know if i made any sense but looking at those pics there looks to be a ton of heat caused from something. To me it can only be one thing... too much slipping of the clutch either from your left foot or maybe it went out of adjustment some how.
As for installing it wrong, maybe i put the flywheel on where the pressure plate goes or something.
actually i didn't say i've done other evos but have done plenty of other clutches. As with the assembly with the clutch it's pretty much just like everything else. Only way you can install it wrong is by leaving something out like a bolt or something or. Theres noway you can put it in backwards, upside down or any other way but the correct way. Yes the Evo is one tough sob to swap a clutch out but the only difference really is that it's harder to get to the clutch vs most other cars. Once you pop the tranny off, it's pretty straight forward. It looks like you pulled it yourself right? Just look at it and tell me how you could install it wrong?well if you don't think you slipped the clutch too much, be sure to check the adjustment on the new one when you get it back in. I don't know how exactly the restrictor pill works but maybe that could malfunction somehow?
well goodluck to ya!!!
Last edited by vtsnake; Oct 7, 2005 at 02:28 AM.
Originally Posted by Zemo
Thanks for the post dirk. So, as it stands my flywheel, disc and pressure plate need to be replaced...is that the impression I'm getting? Can you PM me with a cost for all that?
My best guess at this point as to why the clutch is badly cooked is the backflow valve in there. The car makes some pretty good power, and that combined with a possibly too pre-emptive backflow valve could have cause the clutch to slip far more than it should have.
But then again, wouldn't I have smelled clutch burning if I was putting in too much heat? I've never smelled clutch in the 3000 miles I've driven' this car.
I won't object to sending you the clutch pieces for close inspection, but I need to have a clutch in my car too. Would you PM me and we can discuss my options? Thanks.
My best guess at this point as to why the clutch is badly cooked is the backflow valve in there. The car makes some pretty good power, and that combined with a possibly too pre-emptive backflow valve could have cause the clutch to slip far more than it should have.
But then again, wouldn't I have smelled clutch burning if I was putting in too much heat? I've never smelled clutch in the 3000 miles I've driven' this car.
I won't object to sending you the clutch pieces for close inspection, but I need to have a clutch in my car too. Would you PM me and we can discuss my options? Thanks.
I am not convinced all the parts have to be replaced. We would have to test the parts to know for sure, but I am sure we can save you some coin regardless, but the problem is time. If time is the main concern I am not sure what we can do for you.
I don't do PM any more because it drove me nuts so I stick to email. I don't really handle sales or RGA stuff so I will probably put you in touch with someone regarding where to go from here. Drop me an email for more information at dstarksen@advancedclutch.com.
Originally Posted by vtsnake
well im the previous owner and it did only have 300 miles on it when he bought the car. when i had it, it felt perfectly fine. engagement and all... honestly the stock clutch i took out which i beat the crap out of and wore it out in 3k looked in much better condition. yes it was completely worn but the "hot spots" didn't look nearly as bad on the flywheel and pp.
as with the restrictor pill, it was ACT that recommended along with others to leave it because it serves as a "safety" valve for the drivetrain which makes perfectly good sense. i rather f' up the clutch than the "fragile" POS mitsubishi drivetrain.
A lot of people don't think they are abusing their clutch cause they are not always "launching hard". Most think launching hard is dumping the clutch vs. slipping or feathering. Dumping the clutch is not necessarily hard on the clutch but it is on the drivetrain. Now slipping on the otherhand is what kills clutches. This is when the most heat is caused. It doesn't feel like you're abusing the clutch vs when you just dump it but in all actuality it is a million times worse.
Most people that learn to properly launch a car think slipping the clutch is the best way. Well in some cases it is. Such as when you launch a 2 wheel drive car. It's easier to control the clutch for traction issues vs trying to control tires that are spinning. The idea is to get the most power down at the proper time (where ever you torque curve is) without losing traction or too much traction. Another reason why people like to slip the clutch is cause they don't like the feeling like their car is gonna snap in half or at least drivetrain parts (halfshafts,trans, etc,...)
IMO the only way to launch the evo is to dump the clutch. Its an AWD drive car so traction is less of an issue. Plus Mitsubishi's restrictor pill design is enough feathering by itself...
Another thing is that being turbochared, if you are slipping the clutch while you hit your maximum torque range it's gonna create even more heat and it'll even be harder for the clutch to catch up. It's better to be engaged right before the turbo hits full spoll vs during full spoll. cause if not this is where imo the wear is all caused from. TOO MUCH HEAT AND THE MORE THE CLUTCH SLIPS THE MORE IT WEARS!!! Its very simple.
But remember "dumping" the clutch too hard will break other things. You have to find the happy median. It took me awhile but i did figure how to launch the car with the stock clutch. I was really looking forward to trying the ACT but sold the car before i could.
For all you haters out there, i researched the heck out of the "best" clutch and came to determine the ACT has a proven "track" record (no pun intended) for being a top notch clutch. EXEDY has it's own share of complaints. So for me neither clutch is bullet proof so the price definitely sold me on the ACT. I just wish I could've tried it out.
Anywho i don't know if i made any sense but looking at those pics there looks to be a ton of heat caused from something. To me it can only be one thing... too much slipping of the clutch either from your left foot or maybe it went out of adjustment some how.
As for installing it wrong, maybe i put the flywheel on where the pressure plate goes or something. actually i didn't say i've done other evos but have done plenty of other clutches. As with the assembly with the clutch it's pretty much just like everything else. Only way you can install it wrong is by leaving something out like a bolt or something or. Theres noway you can put it in backwards, upside down or any other way but the correct way. Yes the Evo is one tough sob to swap a clutch out but the only difference really is that it's harder to get to the clutch vs most other cars. Once you pop the tranny off, it's pretty straight forward. It looks like you pulled it yourself right? Just look at it and tell me how you could install it wrong?
well if you don't think you slipped the clutch too much, be sure to check the adjustment on the new one when you get it back in. I don't know how exactly the restrictor pill works but maybe that could malfunction somehow?
well goodluck to ya!!!
as with the restrictor pill, it was ACT that recommended along with others to leave it because it serves as a "safety" valve for the drivetrain which makes perfectly good sense. i rather f' up the clutch than the "fragile" POS mitsubishi drivetrain.
A lot of people don't think they are abusing their clutch cause they are not always "launching hard". Most think launching hard is dumping the clutch vs. slipping or feathering. Dumping the clutch is not necessarily hard on the clutch but it is on the drivetrain. Now slipping on the otherhand is what kills clutches. This is when the most heat is caused. It doesn't feel like you're abusing the clutch vs when you just dump it but in all actuality it is a million times worse.
Most people that learn to properly launch a car think slipping the clutch is the best way. Well in some cases it is. Such as when you launch a 2 wheel drive car. It's easier to control the clutch for traction issues vs trying to control tires that are spinning. The idea is to get the most power down at the proper time (where ever you torque curve is) without losing traction or too much traction. Another reason why people like to slip the clutch is cause they don't like the feeling like their car is gonna snap in half or at least drivetrain parts (halfshafts,trans, etc,...)
IMO the only way to launch the evo is to dump the clutch. Its an AWD drive car so traction is less of an issue. Plus Mitsubishi's restrictor pill design is enough feathering by itself...
Another thing is that being turbochared, if you are slipping the clutch while you hit your maximum torque range it's gonna create even more heat and it'll even be harder for the clutch to catch up. It's better to be engaged right before the turbo hits full spoll vs during full spoll. cause if not this is where imo the wear is all caused from. TOO MUCH HEAT AND THE MORE THE CLUTCH SLIPS THE MORE IT WEARS!!! Its very simple.
But remember "dumping" the clutch too hard will break other things. You have to find the happy median. It took me awhile but i did figure how to launch the car with the stock clutch. I was really looking forward to trying the ACT but sold the car before i could.
For all you haters out there, i researched the heck out of the "best" clutch and came to determine the ACT has a proven "track" record (no pun intended) for being a top notch clutch. EXEDY has it's own share of complaints. So for me neither clutch is bullet proof so the price definitely sold me on the ACT. I just wish I could've tried it out.
Anywho i don't know if i made any sense but looking at those pics there looks to be a ton of heat caused from something. To me it can only be one thing... too much slipping of the clutch either from your left foot or maybe it went out of adjustment some how.
As for installing it wrong, maybe i put the flywheel on where the pressure plate goes or something.
actually i didn't say i've done other evos but have done plenty of other clutches. As with the assembly with the clutch it's pretty much just like everything else. Only way you can install it wrong is by leaving something out like a bolt or something or. Theres noway you can put it in backwards, upside down or any other way but the correct way. Yes the Evo is one tough sob to swap a clutch out but the only difference really is that it's harder to get to the clutch vs most other cars. Once you pop the tranny off, it's pretty straight forward. It looks like you pulled it yourself right? Just look at it and tell me how you could install it wrong?well if you don't think you slipped the clutch too much, be sure to check the adjustment on the new one when you get it back in. I don't know how exactly the restrictor pill works but maybe that could malfunction somehow?
well goodluck to ya!!!
When I say I havn't driven this car overly aggressivley, I mean it. No dumping the clutch (other than the 11 runs at the drag strip). NO launches off of the drag strip (which means no more than 11 clutch dumps and ZERO feathered launches), 95% smooth shifting, no excessive slipping, and I've NEVER smelled the clutch burning.
The only thing I can think of is the clutch going out of adjustment (not engaging fully enough to grab at higher rpms?) But then again, wouldn't I have smelled it burning? Possibly the restrictor pill?
Originally Posted by ACTman
I can't imagine making the parts look like this and not smelling clutch. It is obvious it got super hot so it should have stunk real bad.
I am not convinced all the parts have to be replaced. We would have to test the parts to know for sure, but I am sure we can save you some coin regardless, but the problem is time. If time is the main concern I am not sure what we can do for you.
I don't do PM any more because it drove me nuts so I stick to email. I don't really handle sales or RGA stuff so I will probably put you in touch with someone regarding where to go from here. Drop me an email for more information at dstarksen@advancedclutch.com.
I am not convinced all the parts have to be replaced. We would have to test the parts to know for sure, but I am sure we can save you some coin regardless, but the problem is time. If time is the main concern I am not sure what we can do for you.
I don't do PM any more because it drove me nuts so I stick to email. I don't really handle sales or RGA stuff so I will probably put you in touch with someone regarding where to go from here. Drop me an email for more information at dstarksen@advancedclutch.com.
Well, we can discuss this more over the phone.
you know i was just looking at those pics again and if you look at the pressure plate it doesn't look like it was applying pressure evenly. a third of it looks way f'd up. Dirk could the spring fingers apply pressure unevenly by chance? maybe some weak fingers in the bunch or maybe a warped pressure plate?
the flywheel looked good. actually the flywheel, pressure plate, and disc looked like they weren't really abused. just wornout. i know the flywheel was good cause when i had it resurfaced they didn't have to take much to "flaten" it. wasn't off too badly. i watched them turn it. so to answer your question, no the flywheel wasn't hammered. my belief is that you only should have the evo flywheel resurfaced only once. after that it's time for a new one...
I have over 12K miles on my ACT setup. First time I launched it was when I was getting use to it. I slipped it pretty bad. I only done this twice in adjusting my launch style from my Clutchmasters Stage 3. So in total I have about 10 launches at the most on it. The only times I smelled it was when I slipped it too much those two times. I'm a pretty aggresive driver for the most part. I have the clutch out right now and it still looks to be in really good condition. I can take pics for comparison if need be. I have not had one problem with it. I don't slip the clutch when launching much at all. Once I get moving a bit the throttle goes to the floor and the clutch comes out all the way in a smooth motion. I launch the car anywhere from 5500-6000rpms. The clutch grabs very aggressively and the rpms will drop to 4000 at the least. I definitely think the excessive slipping was caused by your restrictor. I have had mine out since my Clutchmaster kit. You should take it out, but be responsible enough and remember that it is out and you should not damage your drivetrain.