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Poll: FMIC - Front Mount Intercooler
Originally Posted by beavis4g63t
I posted this already but it dissapeared. Has anyone discussed the potential for coupler failure on the buschur kits. There is a hose coupler that connects the turbo outlet pipe to the intercooler inlet on the buschur kits. The motor moves under acceleration while the intercooler is fixed. This causes the coupler to tear itself in half over time. I have seen this personally and it may have happened on dave's personal rs. "Well as luck would have it the time I did take the RS to the track on race gas the performance wasn't there and the next day I found a blown out intercooler coupling on the car. I fixed the coupling and another leak and was ready to go."
Nisei,
Needless to say I am passionate about what I do. I'd like to say that I'd like to retact the statements about "lieing" or misrepresenting your product. Maybe you didn't intentionally do that. Thinking about it I'd think anyone that wanted to intentionally misrepresent what they were testing would not make the results public like you did.
I do, however, feel the testing was not done fairly as something is DEFINETELY wrong with the -7 degrees your intercooler saw in first gear, it is simply impossible if the testing was done correctly. It could not be LESS than ambient air temps, it just cannot, it's not possible.
I get too fired up to quickly, I am very fast to fight and always have been.
I say to you, sorry for accusing you for being crooked, and in the same breath say your testing needs to be performed correctly.
This for the rest of you, was not prompted by a moderator telling me I needed to apologize
I would love to perform testing of the intercooler, not because I care about it but because as long as you are comparing your product to all of the rest of ours someone else needs to be doing testing too.
As I said, if I do the test I want witnesses here when I do it. I'm actually getting quite sick of having my integrity questioned when I do testing.
I will make it a point to order an intercooler this week. If any of you customers have one and wouldn't mind loaning it to me I'd appreciate it. If you wanted to you could be part of the testing procedure too, see how it all works and what we do. I will use my RS as I said.
I'll test all three of our intercoolers when I do this.
rastmp,
When I do the testing with witnesses are you then going to get off my butt?
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Needless to say I am passionate about what I do. I'd like to say that I'd like to retact the statements about "lieing" or misrepresenting your product. Maybe you didn't intentionally do that. Thinking about it I'd think anyone that wanted to intentionally misrepresent what they were testing would not make the results public like you did.
I do, however, feel the testing was not done fairly as something is DEFINETELY wrong with the -7 degrees your intercooler saw in first gear, it is simply impossible if the testing was done correctly. It could not be LESS than ambient air temps, it just cannot, it's not possible.
I get too fired up to quickly, I am very fast to fight and always have been.
I say to you, sorry for accusing you for being crooked, and in the same breath say your testing needs to be performed correctly.
This for the rest of you, was not prompted by a moderator telling me I needed to apologize
I would love to perform testing of the intercooler, not because I care about it but because as long as you are comparing your product to all of the rest of ours someone else needs to be doing testing too.
As I said, if I do the test I want witnesses here when I do it. I'm actually getting quite sick of having my integrity questioned when I do testing.
I will make it a point to order an intercooler this week. If any of you customers have one and wouldn't mind loaning it to me I'd appreciate it. If you wanted to you could be part of the testing procedure too, see how it all works and what we do. I will use my RS as I said.
I'll test all three of our intercoolers when I do this.
rastmp,
When I do the testing with witnesses are you then going to get off my butt?
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
Nisei,
Needless to say I am passionate about what I do. I'd like to say that I'd like to retact the statements about "lieing" or misrepresenting your product. Maybe you didn't intentionally do that. Thinking about it I'd think anyone that wanted to intentionally misrepresent what they were testing would not make the results public like you did.
I do, however, feel the testing was not done fairly as something is DEFINETELY wrong with the -7 degrees your intercooler saw in first gear, it is simply impossible if the testing was done correctly. It could not be LESS than ambient air temps, it just cannot, it's not possible.
I get too fired up to quickly, I am very fast to fight and always have been.
I say to you, sorry for accusing you for being crooked, and in the same breath say your testing needs to be performed correctly.
This for the rest of you, was not prompted by a moderator telling me I needed to apologize
I would love to perform testing of the intercooler, not because I care about it but because as long as you are comparing your product to all of the rest of ours someone else needs to be doing testing too.
As I said, if I do the test I want witnesses here when I do it. I'm actually getting quite sick of having my integrity questioned when I do testing.
I will make it a point to order an intercooler this week. If any of you customers have one and wouldn't mind loaning it to me I'd appreciate it. If you wanted to you could be part of the testing procedure too, see how it all works and what we do. I will use my RS as I said.
I'll test all three of our intercoolers when I do this.
rastmp,
When I do the testing with witnesses are you then going to get off my butt?
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Needless to say I am passionate about what I do. I'd like to say that I'd like to retact the statements about "lieing" or misrepresenting your product. Maybe you didn't intentionally do that. Thinking about it I'd think anyone that wanted to intentionally misrepresent what they were testing would not make the results public like you did.
I do, however, feel the testing was not done fairly as something is DEFINETELY wrong with the -7 degrees your intercooler saw in first gear, it is simply impossible if the testing was done correctly. It could not be LESS than ambient air temps, it just cannot, it's not possible.
I get too fired up to quickly, I am very fast to fight and always have been.
I say to you, sorry for accusing you for being crooked, and in the same breath say your testing needs to be performed correctly.
This for the rest of you, was not prompted by a moderator telling me I needed to apologize
I would love to perform testing of the intercooler, not because I care about it but because as long as you are comparing your product to all of the rest of ours someone else needs to be doing testing too.
As I said, if I do the test I want witnesses here when I do it. I'm actually getting quite sick of having my integrity questioned when I do testing.
I will make it a point to order an intercooler this week. If any of you customers have one and wouldn't mind loaning it to me I'd appreciate it. If you wanted to you could be part of the testing procedure too, see how it all works and what we do. I will use my RS as I said.
I'll test all three of our intercoolers when I do this.
rastmp,
When I do the testing with witnesses are you then going to get off my butt?
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Take it to PM if you want to speak to the moderator that removed your post.
I suggest you review the rules again because what was removed did not pertain to the subject at hand so he was right.
I suggest you review the rules again because what was removed did not pertain to the subject at hand so he was right.
Last edited by timzcat; Dec 31, 2005 at 11:11 AM.
David Buschur,
Would you hold the special price just a bit longer? there are tons of people on this forum right now eager to see some dyno results, people like me have the money burning in the hands and really want to order the intercooler but now we have two vendors that simultaneously claim that their intercooler outperform the competitor.
Being this the case, as a customer point of view we wish to see some results, people are willing to pitch money just to have the test done(me). Please hold your great prices just a bit longer until the dynotest is done.
Thanks!
Would you hold the special price just a bit longer? there are tons of people on this forum right now eager to see some dyno results, people like me have the money burning in the hands and really want to order the intercooler but now we have two vendors that simultaneously claim that their intercooler outperform the competitor.
Being this the case, as a customer point of view we wish to see some results, people are willing to pitch money just to have the test done(me). Please hold your great prices just a bit longer until the dynotest is done.
Thanks!
Unfortunately, I don't think that is going to happen.
David is the only one that is willing to give up hours of his time to test other companies products. Just because this test involves his product doesn't mean he is going to skew the results. Look at his recent exhuast tests that involved everyone elses products and not his own for proof. David would be the first one to admit he was wrong if testing proved it so, that is why everyone should just be thankful that he does this testing.
David is the only one that is willing to give up hours of his time to test other companies products. Just because this test involves his product doesn't mean he is going to skew the results. Look at his recent exhuast tests that involved everyone elses products and not his own for proof. David would be the first one to admit he was wrong if testing proved it so, that is why everyone should just be thankful that he does this testing.
Originally Posted by timzcat
Otherwise, Nesei would be defying the laws of physics
This is great. Nisei just sits back and relaxes while everyone is getting there thongs in a bunch.
Myevostore made one reply and thats it, that's all they need.
If you want buy Nisei. If you like BR then buy there IC.
Nisei
Last edited by BBYBruno; Dec 31, 2005 at 12:09 PM.
Originally Posted by timzcat
Unfortunately, I don't think that is going to happen.
David is the only one that is willing to give up hours of his time to test other companies products. Just because this test involves his product doesn't mean he is going to skew the results. Look at his recent exhuast tests that involved everyone elses products and not his own for proof. David would be the first one to admit he was wrong if testing proved it so, that is why everyone should just be thankful that he does this testing.
David is the only one that is willing to give up hours of his time to test other companies products. Just because this test involves his product doesn't mean he is going to skew the results. Look at his recent exhuast tests that involved everyone elses products and not his own for proof. David would be the first one to admit he was wrong if testing proved it so, that is why everyone should just be thankful that he does this testing.
David is not the only one who tests his products against others, he just is a lot more public with the results.
I, and I'm sure many others, have noticed a penchant for Dave to come out swinging only to apologize later. Dave says he gets worked up easily, but this forum isn't like a conversation (where we all have said things we didn't mean). You actually have to sit down, think, and then type. Everyone on here encourages open debate, hell, that's what this forum is for.
But seriously, this whole bomb-throwing thing has got to stop. There was the whole Buschur-Vishnu crap before. Now we have Nisei-Buschur. Notice any similarities?
Last edited by Erik@MIL.SPEC; Dec 31, 2005 at 02:21 PM.
Evolved Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 613
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From: Burbank
Originally Posted by blitz118
I would rather see the intercoolers tested my some independent other than Nisei or Buschur Racing. Someone how has nothing to gain from the test.
(Nisei hasn't tested the new BR IC yet, so their results are obsolete.)
Winner PAYS all shipping costs since they'll reap the rewards?
I'm guessing results will be very close with lots of lovin' to go around.
atlvalet,
I don't have to sit down and think before I type. I read and reply, it is like a conversation to me, I type over 70 wpm so my replies are about as fast as I can talk Don't take my apology the wrong way, I was simply saying maybe the results weren't as intentionally messed with as it seemed. No matter how you look at it the tests are still no accurate.
As for the testing/sale we are running on our Deluxe FMIC. I'm more than willing to do the testing as I have said. The one thing we already know for sure is our intercooler has virtually NO pressure drop what-so-ever, as we advertise it.
I would hope that an intercooler with 2 psi more pressure drop than ours and a much larger core WOULD cool the air charge more. It would be pretty sad if it didn't actually.
The test I perform with our Std and Deluxe kits will more than likely show the same results, ours less pressure drop and theirs COULD have slightly better cooling. Now, put our Race FMIC up against theirs, as the cores are very similar in size and then you have no pressure drop and I would venture to say superior cooling too. For those of you in doubt about the points I have tried to make and you just want to keep crying about me jumping on a BS wagon when I see it atleast do some research of your own. Talk to some reputable turbo shops that build real fast cars and ask them if you were going all out what you would rather have, 2 psi pressure drop across an intercooler core or an additional 10 degrees of tempurature. You'll find every one of them will take the 10 degrees. I find it also curious that the testing that was done was against our smaller intercooler, why not test against the one we build that is slightly larger than theirs? Hmmm.......
I've made another observation over the last week or two. Two example are on this page. The guys that jump me for making observations on other companies products are usually the ones that have already spent their money on that particular product. BBYBruno and atlvalet you have both spent your money already on the Nisei. I wouldn't want to admit to getting an inferior product anymore than you have in any case. Fact is both of you guys could go look at those test results and see that something isn't quite right. Anyone else with an open mind has done this. Instead you attack me (not so much an attack BBYBRUNO in THIS topic) for pointing out the obvious. It's really odd to me that someone would be like that.
I own, currently, about 12 different types of cars. I have modified or completely built each and everyone of them. (I'm not bragging, just getting to a point) I have owned I don't even know how many cars in my 23 years of building/modifying cars and in that time I have gotten an inferior product MANY times. I had no problem replacing it with something that was better when I found it. It just happens.
I'll order up the Nisei intercooler on Tuesday. I won't post the results of the test and we will do them in secret, I just want the information for myself as some of you won't believe it anyway.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
"I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees."
I don't have to sit down and think before I type. I read and reply, it is like a conversation to me, I type over 70 wpm so my replies are about as fast as I can talk
Don't take my apology the wrong way, I was simply saying maybe the results weren't as intentionally messed with as it seemed. No matter how you look at it the tests are still no accurate.As for the testing/sale we are running on our Deluxe FMIC. I'm more than willing to do the testing as I have said. The one thing we already know for sure is our intercooler has virtually NO pressure drop what-so-ever, as we advertise it.
I would hope that an intercooler with 2 psi more pressure drop than ours and a much larger core WOULD cool the air charge more. It would be pretty sad if it didn't actually.
The test I perform with our Std and Deluxe kits will more than likely show the same results, ours less pressure drop and theirs COULD have slightly better cooling. Now, put our Race FMIC up against theirs, as the cores are very similar in size and then you have no pressure drop and I would venture to say superior cooling too. For those of you in doubt about the points I have tried to make and you just want to keep crying about me jumping on a BS wagon when I see it atleast do some research of your own. Talk to some reputable turbo shops that build real fast cars and ask them if you were going all out what you would rather have, 2 psi pressure drop across an intercooler core or an additional 10 degrees of tempurature. You'll find every one of them will take the 10 degrees. I find it also curious that the testing that was done was against our smaller intercooler, why not test against the one we build that is slightly larger than theirs? Hmmm.......
I've made another observation over the last week or two. Two example are on this page. The guys that jump me for making observations on other companies products are usually the ones that have already spent their money on that particular product. BBYBruno and atlvalet you have both spent your money already on the Nisei. I wouldn't want to admit to getting an inferior product anymore than you have in any case. Fact is both of you guys could go look at those test results and see that something isn't quite right. Anyone else with an open mind has done this. Instead you attack me (not so much an attack BBYBRUNO in THIS topic) for pointing out the obvious. It's really odd to me that someone would be like that.
I own, currently, about 12 different types of cars. I have modified or completely built each and everyone of them. (I'm not bragging, just getting to a point) I have owned I don't even know how many cars in my 23 years of building/modifying cars and in that time I have gotten an inferior product MANY times. I had no problem replacing it with something that was better when I found it. It just happens.
I'll order up the Nisei intercooler on Tuesday. I won't post the results of the test and we will do them in secret, I just want the information for myself as some of you won't believe it anyway.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
"I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees."
Wow, just checked my PM's. I have three offers for Nisei intercoolers. I won't need to order one so don't look for the order. I will however have one by the end of this coming week and will make it priority to test it.
I will have to install and wire a couple more inputs for the EMS for boost/air temps so I can do this correctly. I will do the tests on each unit with pressure in/out and air temps in/out. On the dyno, same fans for all the tests as they are mounted on the dyno. I will also start the tests on each intercooler once the air temp on the inlet side has reached AMBIENT air temps. So if the room is 50 degrees the test will be started when the inlet air temp INSIDE the intercooler also reaches 50 degrees.
Hopefully results by next Friday.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
I will have to install and wire a couple more inputs for the EMS for boost/air temps so I can do this correctly. I will do the tests on each unit with pressure in/out and air temps in/out. On the dyno, same fans for all the tests as they are mounted on the dyno. I will also start the tests on each intercooler once the air temp on the inlet side has reached AMBIENT air temps. So if the room is 50 degrees the test will be started when the inlet air temp INSIDE the intercooler also reaches 50 degrees.
Hopefully results by next Friday.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com