View Poll Results: Which do you like?
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Poll: FMIC - Front Mount Intercooler
Originally Posted by needasrt4
david when are you doing the test
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
Wow, just checked my PM's. I have three offers for Nisei intercoolers. I won't need to order one so don't look for the order. I will however have one by the end of this coming week and will make it priority to test it.
I will have to install and wire a couple more inputs for the EMS for boost/air temps so I can do this correctly. I will do the tests on each unit with pressure in/out and air temps in/out. On the dyno, same fans for all the tests as they are mounted on the dyno. I will also start the tests on each intercooler once the air temp on the inlet side has reached AMBIENT air temps. So if the room is 50 degrees the test will be started when the inlet air temp INSIDE the intercooler also reaches 50 degrees.
Hopefully results by next Friday.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
I will have to install and wire a couple more inputs for the EMS for boost/air temps so I can do this correctly. I will do the tests on each unit with pressure in/out and air temps in/out. On the dyno, same fans for all the tests as they are mounted on the dyno. I will also start the tests on each intercooler once the air temp on the inlet side has reached AMBIENT air temps. So if the room is 50 degrees the test will be started when the inlet air temp INSIDE the intercooler also reaches 50 degrees.
Hopefully results by next Friday.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Evolving Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Boosted GP
6. With all these kits (Buschur, ARC, Nisei, AMS) upper i/c piping does it all work with the std airbox?
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2203642&postcount=163
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/showthread.php?t=171930&page=2&pp=15&highlight=nis ei
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/showthread.php?t=171930&highlight=nisei
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...1&postcount=22
Fits on Evo 9:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=174439
http://nisei-evo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21
About undertray mods:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=174988
Last edited by EVOSlayer; Jan 2, 2006 at 10:01 AM.
The GRE Performance FMIC is hand made in the USA and is built from a 24" X 11.5" X 3” bar and plate core which flows 1150 CFM; enough flow to handle more than 650 HP efficiently! The kit also includes reinforced pure silicone couplers and Stainless Steel T Bolt clamps to mate with the stock piping. The core we use is unique because it contains staggered and offset internal fins which greatly increase the efficiency of the unit. Best of all it is a true “Bolt On” part, there is no cutting required to fit this intercooler to the car, though the undertray must either be modified or removed. For the holidays we are offering these for only $599. Also all of our intercoolers are backed up by a lifetime warranty.
Originally Posted by bbar
Wow, it looks like I missed all the excitement here while I was on vacation this past week. I rarely post on this forum, but I can contribute to this thread. I had a Buschur IC on my car for about a year and a half. The car ran fine and I was happy. Then, after talking to Rob (the Nisei rep) and Kevin (the one who designed the nisei core), I had been convinced to at least try the Nisei core. Here's the data I got from the EMS. (If you don't have the EMS logging software go download it from www.aempower.com because then you can see the air temps and exactly what is going on in gears 2-4 in the two logs I have posted.)
A quick breakdown...the car has a GT3076R and a Buschur upper IC pipe. The temp sensor is at the bottom of the IC pipe (a few inches away from the IC outlet). I did a log on each core from gears 2-4 ). The logs were done on different days with different temperatures. On the day I logged the Buschur IC the air temp was 9 degrees warmer.
Buschur IC
baseline temp reading in second gear: 44.6F
air temp at top of fourth gear: 6918 RPM - 91.40F
Nisei IC
baseline temp reading in second gear: 35.6F
air temp at top of fourth gear: 6934 RPM - 41.0F
So at the top of forth gear, the air going into the intake manifold was 50.4 degrees cooler with the Nisei core compared to the Buschur core. And not only does the Nisei cool better (much better), it is much more consistent. For example, if you look at the log, the air temp line with the Nisei is almost completely flat. In fact, at the top of fourth gear, the air temp had only gone up by 13.17%. The Buschur core's graph on the other hand, looks more like the beginning of a roller coaster. That is, the only thing that's consistent is that the temps keep getting hotter and hotter very quickly. At the top of fourth gear with the Buschur core, the air which the intake manifold sees had increased 51.20% over the ambient air. As expected though, the Buschur core had less of a pressure drop because when I put the Nisei core on the car, I needed to turn the boost about 1 psi to get back to 25 psi. I know this test is not perfect because the ambient air temps were 9 degrees off, but come on...50+ degrees difference? It's not hard to tell which is the better core.
A quick breakdown...the car has a GT3076R and a Buschur upper IC pipe. The temp sensor is at the bottom of the IC pipe (a few inches away from the IC outlet). I did a log on each core from gears 2-4 ). The logs were done on different days with different temperatures. On the day I logged the Buschur IC the air temp was 9 degrees warmer.
Buschur IC
baseline temp reading in second gear: 44.6F
air temp at top of fourth gear: 6918 RPM - 91.40F
Nisei IC
baseline temp reading in second gear: 35.6F
air temp at top of fourth gear: 6934 RPM - 41.0F
So at the top of forth gear, the air going into the intake manifold was 50.4 degrees cooler with the Nisei core compared to the Buschur core. And not only does the Nisei cool better (much better), it is much more consistent. For example, if you look at the log, the air temp line with the Nisei is almost completely flat. In fact, at the top of fourth gear, the air temp had only gone up by 13.17%. The Buschur core's graph on the other hand, looks more like the beginning of a roller coaster. That is, the only thing that's consistent is that the temps keep getting hotter and hotter very quickly. At the top of fourth gear with the Buschur core, the air which the intake manifold sees had increased 51.20% over the ambient air. As expected though, the Buschur core had less of a pressure drop because when I put the Nisei core on the car, I needed to turn the boost about 1 psi to get back to 25 psi. I know this test is not perfect because the ambient air temps were 9 degrees off, but come on...50+ degrees difference? It's not hard to tell which is the better core.
Just to let you know your data for both intercoolers is the same
. Shouldn't they be different?
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: Newport Beach, CA
Originally Posted by Str8Ryda
BBar,
This is very interesting. I was wondering if you might be able to "print screen" and post the actual graphs of the above runs. I don't want to download the software to something I'm not going to use.
What I want to do is just check the characteristics of your chart vs what Nisei has posted. More so I'm interested to know if the temperatures of both cores climb in temperature in a similar manner. It would be kind of a overlay comparison.
Much appreciated in advance!
This is very interesting. I was wondering if you might be able to "print screen" and post the actual graphs of the above runs. I don't want to download the software to something I'm not going to use.
What I want to do is just check the characteristics of your chart vs what Nisei has posted. More so I'm interested to know if the temperatures of both cores climb in temperature in a similar manner. It would be kind of a overlay comparison.
Much appreciated in advance!
Here's the Buschur core:
Here's the Nisei Core:
For bigger pictures you can also go here:
http://socalevo.net/gallery/albums/u...uschurCore.jpg
http://socalevo.net/gallery/albums/u.../niseiCore.jpg
Let's hear an explanation of why with the Nisei core the boost flutters rapidly while with the Buschur unit is smooth. Is it due to a restriction in the Nisei unit or some sort of turbulence?
Also, look at the boost recovery going in to 3rd gear. Much quicker with the Buschur unit.
Thanks for the pics!
EVOlutionary
Also, look at the boost recovery going in to 3rd gear. Much quicker with the Buschur unit.
Thanks for the pics!
EVOlutionary
Last edited by EVOlutionary; Jan 2, 2006 at 05:51 PM.
Wow, what is with the boost line with the Nisei intercooler. I've never seen a boost line that jagged.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: Newport Beach, CA
Reading pressure has always been a pain in the *** with my car, but nonetheless, the spikiness is defiantly interesting. About the same time I switched to the Nisei core, we had just gone through and changed most of the boost sources that lead to or affect the MAP sensor. The filter for the MAP sensor was also set higher (that should have smoothed out the pressure signal though). The spikiness may also be related to the sample rate being set to a value lower (faster) than the default value of 3 at the time of the Nisei test. Maybe, someone else who is running both an EMS and a Nisei core can tell us if this is just an isolated incident with my particular situation or if they also see a spiky manifold pressure reading. David, if you decide to test the Nisei core, it will be interesting to see whether this happens on your car.
Im sorry,but when the time comes. David Buschur is the one i pick. I think no matter what he's always doing something for this forums and always willing to give us any info that we want. Willing to do test and backs up his product for whatever its worth. His work with the 20g 9 sold me on commitment. I have his STS and its awesome best customer service i have gotten in a while whenever the time comes for a nice upgrade BR is where im going. Hands down.
So BR race is what i pick
So BR race is what i pick
Last edited by Spooldyou; Jan 2, 2006 at 09:53 PM.
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: Newport Beach, CA
Originally Posted by EVOlutionary
Let's hear an explanation of why with the Nisei core the boost flutters rapidly while with the Buschur unit is smooth. Is it due to a restriction in the Nisei unit or some sort of turbulence?
Also, look at the boost recovery going in to 3rd gear. Much quicker with the Buschur unit.
Thanks for the pics!
EVOlutionary
Also, look at the boost recovery going in to 3rd gear. Much quicker with the Buschur unit.
Thanks for the pics!
EVOlutionary
Also, it would seem that because the fin design of the Nisei core is so much denser than that of the Buschur core, it would be more restrictive and therefore yield a slower spool-up rate between shifts. However, this is not the case according to the log. In fact, it seems that the opposite is the case. You will need to download the log to see this, but I’ll say something here for the people who do not have AEMLog installed.
What I did was looked through the logs to find the point where I had just shifted and then I waited for the throttle position to be at 100%. Once the throttle hit 100% the counting started. When the boost hit 22 psi, the counting stopped. So first lets look at the 2-3 shift on the Buschur log. When I was in third gear at 100% throttle, the boost pressure was 8.85 psi and the log was at 6.580 seconds. The car hit 21.98 psi (almost 22 psi) at 6.940 seconds. So to hit 22 psi from about 9 psi, it took the car .36 seconds. Now let’s look at the Nisei core on the 2-3 shift. When I was in third gear at 100% throttle, the boost pressure was 7.378 psi and the log was at 4.940 seconds. The car hit 22.82 psi at 5.300 seconds. So it hit the 22 psi mark in .36 seconds. And if you really want to get down to it, the Nisei started from a lower boost level and then hit a higher boost level than the Buschur in the same amount of time. If you check the 3-4 shift, you will see something similar. That is, it took the Buschur core .52 seconds to hit 22.82 psi while it took the Nisei only .32 seconds to hit 22.34 psi.
But to be fair to Buschur, these two logs were taken on different days with different settings. Even though I think this is a decent test, I know it’s not a perfect one because there may have been (or, moreover, there probably were) outside factors that changed the car’s performance other than the intercooler. My point here is simply that by the log we have to look at, it does not imply that the Buschur core spools better between shifts. The opposite can actually be drawn from the given logs.
Last edited by bbar; Jan 2, 2006 at 10:46 PM.
BBar,
A lot of input from different tests different days and now with different hose routing and boost sources that effect the MAP sensor..........
Looking forward to my own testing.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
A lot of input from different tests different days and now with different hose routing and boost sources that effect the MAP sensor..........
Looking forward to my own testing.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: Newport Beach, CA
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
BBar,
A lot of input from different tests different days and now with different hose routing and boost sources that effect the MAP sensor..........
Looking forward to my own testing.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
A lot of input from different tests different days and now with different hose routing and boost sources that effect the MAP sensor..........
Looking forward to my own testing.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
I, like you, really am looking forward to your own testing too because, numbers are more helpful than fancy rhetoric.