I honestly dont think that would help much.. The intake ports start at a near 0 degree position anyways.. the change most of the angle once inside the head therefore the only way to make it better would be the head itself. I dont want to make these manifolds only work well on a ported head. I will try to make it so we could make anything someone could want but keep it so it easily bolts up and works well for any Evo/DSM.

Here is a pic of what I am trying to explain:

http://www.vasso.net/gallery/showpho...o/2985/cat/589

You can see the ports in the head start straight and angle down from within the head.

 

Both.

I use the steady state flow for the total distribution (Making it easier to visualize how well it hits each port) and then I test it with each valve event to check the real numbers it would hit at each event.

 

rapid prototyping that thing will be a collosal waste of money. the ABS plastic they are made out of is very very brittle (others are made of plaster which is like handling paper thin glass). you wont be able to run it on a car, and if your very lucky you may be able to flow bench it at very very small pressure differentials to atmostpheric. your best bet is to use your cad software to make it into a sheetmetal drawings and get it laser cut or water jet cut. from there roll the cone by hand ( i don't see any other way of doing that), and just weld the rest together. you going to manufacturing them out of aluminum or stainless? keep in mind that aluminum corrodes with alcohol, and a large percentage of your clientel will be using alcohol injection... might want to consider coatings (or anodizing) in that case. manufacturability of that cone is going to be a ***** if you expect it to hold 30+ psi and not burst. aluminum doesn't like to be bent and the thicker you make it the more it tears when bending (or rolling in this case). additionally, welding those two pieces together is going to make it tough to keep the inside surface clean and smooth along the seam between the two parts (cone and plenum).

where are your injector bungs going to be? any specific angles for those guys? length along the runners?

 

this is sick that u are doing this in your spare time. wish i had the time to do such. i work for the gov as a mechanical engineer and i use pro-e wildfire. its a very technical program. we do sterolithography here for certain fits and models but nothing that would hold realistic pressures. very cool.

 

Excellent design. Part of natural aspiration is to free up runners and such...however, turbo cars have a lot of different areas that are less sensitive. On the other hand, it'd be good to see what a stock turboed car would do.

I'll buy a beta from you and log the dfferences.

 

The injector angles are the exact same as the stock ones were. I can mimic having injectors spray at each intake event and optimize the flow but it honestly wont do anything considering most people run thier injectors past 80% duty cycle which is around when they would start spraying on the back of the valves anyways.

I have never made anything with the 3d printers so I guess I will talk with the people that will do all this for me and see what they can crap out for me. They also have some different CNC machines that we could use to make the flanges. Currently we are planning on making the flanges and bending the aluminum (Or angling straight pieces and welding) and then buy the correct size cone (Apparently they make a bunch of cones premade out of varying thickness and taper).

We were thinking of making everything Aluminum but we could do stainless but I think it would start to weigh a decent amount with stainless. Our other thought was investment casting. This would ensure the final product is extremely smooth and would look perfect and not be grainy. I am unsure on what the prices of everything will come to but the investment cast seems like the best way to go if I can afford it. Otherwise we stick to good old welding

About anodizing it, obviously we could do that for anyone. They could even choose the pretty little colors We will make some fuel rails and things as well that could be anodized on both sides so methanol wont corrode them.

As for the methanol injection guys we will most likely have some options to have a nozzle on each runner so the methanol can be sprayed equally amongts each cylinder. This was a big concern I had when I was using meth injection... You never know how much gets to each cylinder.

Whatever we decide to do it will work. If it doesnt we will just make another one until it does. If we decide to go with investment casting all the proto-types will be just welded aluminum for testing. These are also the manifolds we will dyno everything with and/or send to vendors for them to test as well as us.

 

As for all the measurements, I would rather get the final version finished before I crap out any numbers for you guys... otherwise it will just get confusing to me and everyone else. The pictures I posted so far are obviously not near being correct. The plenum is far, the pressure drop is too great and the cone -> plenum angle is not correct. Once its done I will post up the final version with all the measurements if you guys want.

 

fantastic! fun stuff intake design is...

 

Have you tried different taper angles (on both planes) & what did you find? What camshafts did you use for your timing events and did you find that runner shape/length changed with different intake durations?
I went through a bunch of different variations on the dyno before we settled on our design.

 

The timing for the intake events dont matter as far as optimum flow is concerned. The transition from one intake runner to the next is good enough. Even if you have a second valve open while the first one is open it is still the transition that matters (Going from one port to the next). As far as determining peak TQ then yes, the runners matter tremendously.

As far as the taper angles you mean on the plenum side or runner side? The plenum side we have played with alot. The more taper = more pressure = pushes air towards the first intake runner. Obviously less taper = less pressure and helps get the air to the farther runner.

It was also noticed that the more taper you have, the smaller plenum is needed to keep the flow in a controlled state. Considering we dont want a 4 cu/ft plenum it became pretty obvious on the sizing and taper pretty quickly. I was very surprised on the cone -> plenum angle however. I originally thought by placing the cone on the top rearmost part of the plenum and angling it towards the runners would be the best. I was wrong. That led to alot of air getting compressed into the non-active runners.

As far as the taper on the runners I determined that the best would be roughly a 1-2 degree taper. When I squished it much farther than that it started to raise the pressure in the plenum hurting the flow.

As far as the peak TQ numbers and runner length stuff it is kinda in the air. We have an educated guess based on other manifolds we have but dont have any hard data on any of it. The runner lengths shouldnt effect the manifold design at all anyways... it is just tuning the length for the right peak TQ. We will use a few different lengths most likely in the end depending on where people would want thier manifold to push the TQ to. Motors spinning at 10.5k obviously would need a different length then motors spinning to 7k. I think we will end up with two different lengths. One aimed at stroker motors and the other for destroked 2.1s and 2.0s. It also depends on if we go the investment cast way or the weld together way.

 

Oh and yes, the runner length changed based on intake durations. The actual difference was not very large from a 272 to a 280. I dont feel a need to test it for stock cams because anyone putting on an aftermarket intake manifold most surely doesnt have stock cams The shape doesnt matter at all aside from the taper which isnt affected by the duration.

 

i like the location for the throttlebody! most intakes have the t/b so low.

 

Here are some pics of another previous version that help explain some of the things I discovered:


First of all is this one. It illistrates the problem with facing the cone opening towards the runners. First problem is the swirling of the air as it pounds against the walls / pressure build up from the closed intake valves:



The other problem with angling it this way is the fact that it pushes so much air into the ports that arent even being used... it takes the air much longer to get to where it is needed at that point because of this as well as creating more heat and pressure for no reason:


Lastly, you can clearly see that the opening is too small in this design as well because the air has enough time to slam against the end wall before traveling down into the main plenum:



All this info makes it relatively easy to get the sizing correct because to make an opening large enough, you need to decrease the taper size (Unless you increase the throttlebody by alot). It also helps make the placement of the cone relatively simple because too far forward and the air has to travel around the velocity stacks creating a low pressure zone in front of each runner which counter effects any scavenging you tried to make. If you place it too far back it directs air into the non-open ports as illistrated above. The last piece is the actual plenum design. This is what I am still playing with mostly trying to get it right.

 

Trina,


That is pretty cool software you are using their. Good luck with this project.

 

Some other things to notice....

You can also see how this design is attempting to push the air too far by looking at the pressure from the throttlebody side to the other side of the main plenum. The pressure should be slightly more uniform than this to help get the air to the first runner.

The other thing you can notice is how much greater the pressure is in the cone because of the small inlet between the two.




And the software isnt bad... I would like to try FloWorks because it works right through Solid Works but I cant seem to find someone that "owns" a copy. Fluent and FloWizard work but take a hell of a long time to calculate everything.