Speed Element / Full-Race GT35R 91 OCTANE DYNO
A ebc is in the works.
I really don't think that the power band is as bad as it seems. If you do a little digging in various forums you might find that this kind of power on 91 octane on the Gruppe-S dyno is actually quite remarkable.
I hear that the DJ equivalent is about 18-22%.
To give you an idea of how this dyno reads, only 1 EVO 8 has cracked over 300 whp on this dyno with 91 octane and the true 16G and that was Earlyapex (razorlab). Mine came close with 297 whp. I believe my EVO 8 is the only one to crack over 300 wtq on 91 on the same dyno. It just goes to show just how tough it is to make "big" numbers. This Mustang definately isn't one that reads close to a Dynojet.
I really don't think that the power band is as bad as it seems. If you do a little digging in various forums you might find that this kind of power on 91 octane on the Gruppe-S dyno is actually quite remarkable.
I hear that the DJ equivalent is about 18-22%.
To give you an idea of how this dyno reads, only 1 EVO 8 has cracked over 300 whp on this dyno with 91 octane and the true 16G and that was Earlyapex (razorlab). Mine came close with 297 whp. I believe my EVO 8 is the only one to crack over 300 wtq on 91 on the same dyno. It just goes to show just how tough it is to make "big" numbers. This Mustang definately isn't one that reads close to a Dynojet.
this dyno is setup exactly like buschurs. i believe buschur said the most a pumpgas 35r has made on his dyno was 378 and that was a built 2.3 with everything on 93-94 octane. the guy later dyno'd on pruven's dynojet and put down 450awhp. that is alot of power for a 35r on pump!
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: Fort Worth
yea my evo on a mustang dyno gave me 302awhp@7k rpm w/ 300awtq@4k rpm
mustangdynos do read lower than a dynojet. but ive heard so many % differences to add so i just add 10%
which a good baseline dynojet number for my car would be 332awhp. im happy with that
mustangdynos do read lower than a dynojet. but ive heard so many % differences to add so i just add 10%
which a good baseline dynojet number for my car would be 332awhp. im happy with that
Originally Posted by EFIxMR
A ebc is in the works.
I really don't think that the power band is as bad as it seems. If you do a little digging in various forums you might find that this kind of power on 91 octane on the Gruppe-S dyno is actually quite remarkable.
I hear that the DJ equivalent is about 18-22%.
To give you an idea of how this dyno reads, only 1 EVO 8 has cracked over 300 whp on this dyno with 91 octane and the true 16G and that was Earlyapex (razorlab). Mine came close with 297 whp. I believe my EVO 8 is the only one to crack over 300 wtq on 91 on the same dyno. It just goes to show just how tough it is to make "big" numbers. This Mustang definately isn't one that reads close to a Dynojet.
I really don't think that the power band is as bad as it seems. If you do a little digging in various forums you might find that this kind of power on 91 octane on the Gruppe-S dyno is actually quite remarkable.
I hear that the DJ equivalent is about 18-22%.
To give you an idea of how this dyno reads, only 1 EVO 8 has cracked over 300 whp on this dyno with 91 octane and the true 16G and that was Earlyapex (razorlab). Mine came close with 297 whp. I believe my EVO 8 is the only one to crack over 300 wtq on 91 on the same dyno. It just goes to show just how tough it is to make "big" numbers. This Mustang definately isn't one that reads close to a Dynojet.
Originally Posted by nickracer9
this dyno is setup exactly like buschurs. i believe buschur said the most a pumpgas 35r has made on his dyno was 378 and that was a built 2.3 with everything on 93-94 octane. the guy later dyno'd on pruven's dynojet and put down 450awhp. that is alot of power for a 35r on pump!
FWIW, on 93 oct I'm at 397whp / 296 ft lbs with a similar setup, so that seems possible.
IIRC, in previous conversations about the similarity between the GS dyno and Vishnu's DD, it was determined that they did in fact read similarly.
I believe there was a thread called "Bay Area Dyno Testing Team" of sorts.
My target hp on 91 octane is actually ~400 whp, but ran out of injector before I could make it that high.
I believe there was a thread called "Bay Area Dyno Testing Team" of sorts.
My target hp on 91 octane is actually ~400 whp, but ran out of injector before I could make it that high.
Evolving Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
From: Afghanistan
heres the comparison, granted not every car is born the same:
stock 05 EVO VIII MR on Buschur's "Mustang Dyno" put down 197, thats directly from David to me in a discussion...not word of mouth. Also thats 93 oct. on a dynojet at 93oct. ive seen from 240-264 stock.
I have cracked over 300whp and tq on 93, and still lack many bolt-ons that guys have...i still have I/C piping on the way. no 2 cars are built exactly the same, but the direction in which you mod them and how you do it is the key. also elevation is big too...the higher you go the less dense the air...so the slower your spool and less boost. where as sea-level is prime because the air cold or not is so thick. (obviously cold dense air is what we crave...)
stock 05 EVO VIII MR on Buschur's "Mustang Dyno" put down 197, thats directly from David to me in a discussion...not word of mouth. Also thats 93 oct. on a dynojet at 93oct. ive seen from 240-264 stock.
I have cracked over 300whp and tq on 93, and still lack many bolt-ons that guys have...i still have I/C piping on the way. no 2 cars are built exactly the same, but the direction in which you mod them and how you do it is the key. also elevation is big too...the higher you go the less dense the air...so the slower your spool and less boost. where as sea-level is prime because the air cold or not is so thick. (obviously cold dense air is what we crave...)
Originally Posted by EFIxMR
My target hp on 91 octane is actually ~400 whp, but ran out of injector before I could make it that high.
If you're injectors are holding until 7800rpm, it appears to be of little significance to the power curve, as the power is falling past 7400rpm. Nevertheless, they should be larger.
I bought these injectors used from a friend as a favor, they were supposed to be 1000'cc injectors, but they obviously aren't to my surprise.
I believe my setup has more to go as I was able to make this power without much tweeking of my timing map. My timing still has room and has yet to reach past the safety margin near MBT.
I believe my setup has more to go as I was able to make this power without much tweeking of my timing map. My timing still has room and has yet to reach past the safety margin near MBT.
Last edited by EFIxMR; Jul 2, 2006 at 09:31 PM.
8000 24.2
7500 23.2
7000 22.9
6500 23.5
6000 21.9
5500 21.7
5000 14.7
4500 8.2
4000 4.8
3500 3.9
3000 2.3
This is my boost profile, I am getting a bit of boost creep. Hence why the relatively low tq compared to the hp.
I'm putting in an NLR boost control and porting my WG transition from the manifold, which will cure the boost creep, so I can run 25 psi from 5500 to redline if the 91 octane permits.
The boost creep I'm getting right now is kind of interesting.
As it is the opposite of what I do with the stock 16G which is a controlled boost spike to get big TQ. So instead the boost creep now gives me increased top end.
An engine is most likely to knock a peak tq, so by running only 21-22 psi at that point gives me a large safety margin on pump gas, but ramping the boost up towards redline after peak tq keeps the torque from falling.
Running increased boost as engine speed goes up is possible because pistons speeds are higher aleviating the tendancy to knock.
After my EBC is set and the WG entry is ported and I'm running a solid 25 psi, I will need to adjust my timing at peak tq to keep things in check.
7500 23.2
7000 22.9
6500 23.5
6000 21.9
5500 21.7
5000 14.7
4500 8.2
4000 4.8
3500 3.9
3000 2.3
This is my boost profile, I am getting a bit of boost creep. Hence why the relatively low tq compared to the hp.
I'm putting in an NLR boost control and porting my WG transition from the manifold, which will cure the boost creep, so I can run 25 psi from 5500 to redline if the 91 octane permits.
The boost creep I'm getting right now is kind of interesting.
As it is the opposite of what I do with the stock 16G which is a controlled boost spike to get big TQ. So instead the boost creep now gives me increased top end.
An engine is most likely to knock a peak tq, so by running only 21-22 psi at that point gives me a large safety margin on pump gas, but ramping the boost up towards redline after peak tq keeps the torque from falling.
Running increased boost as engine speed goes up is possible because pistons speeds are higher aleviating the tendancy to knock.
After my EBC is set and the WG entry is ported and I'm running a solid 25 psi, I will need to adjust my timing at peak tq to keep things in check.
Last edited by EFIxMR; Jul 3, 2006 at 01:25 PM.
Originally Posted by EFIxMR
True, I am definately not trying to convey the message that a 35R is an ideal track setup.
I think the 30R on race fuel or alky can give the characteristics you are looking for.
However, IMHO on the street the 30R (either 3071 or 3076) on pump fuel gives up too much low end power for not enough high end gain compared to a proper BPU 16G.
The 35R while gives up even more low end power than the 30R, it makes up for that fact with its greatly increased pump gas hp potential.
I've tuned 3071Rs, and 30Rs, and to tell you the truth around town the drivability with those turbo's aren't that much better than the 35R. below 4k they all feel terribly laggy. The difference is the 35R will suck you back into the seat and feel scary fast when it finally does kick in and it doesnt need exotic fuel or an aggressive tune to do so.
Also, I think that the dyno is a very poor example to judge exactly what a car feels like. It does not measure the engines transient response during partial throttle action, which is the real meat and potatoes of real world driving.
Going with a turbo like a 35R just means you have to adjust your driving habits, if you absolutely love the fact that you can keep your car in gear at 3k and just hit the gas and go, this type of setup will make you mad.
If you can accept that acceleration events require a downshift to get into the powerband, then the 35R will make you happy.
I think the 30R on race fuel or alky can give the characteristics you are looking for.
However, IMHO on the street the 30R (either 3071 or 3076) on pump fuel gives up too much low end power for not enough high end gain compared to a proper BPU 16G.
The 35R while gives up even more low end power than the 30R, it makes up for that fact with its greatly increased pump gas hp potential.
I've tuned 3071Rs, and 30Rs, and to tell you the truth around town the drivability with those turbo's aren't that much better than the 35R. below 4k they all feel terribly laggy. The difference is the 35R will suck you back into the seat and feel scary fast when it finally does kick in and it doesnt need exotic fuel or an aggressive tune to do so.
Also, I think that the dyno is a very poor example to judge exactly what a car feels like. It does not measure the engines transient response during partial throttle action, which is the real meat and potatoes of real world driving.
Going with a turbo like a 35R just means you have to adjust your driving habits, if you absolutely love the fact that you can keep your car in gear at 3k and just hit the gas and go, this type of setup will make you mad.
If you can accept that acceleration events require a downshift to get into the powerband, then the 35R will make you happy.
I should cut and paste this everytime someone is complaining about a turbo being too laggy...it is totally based on driving style. The last part of your post is perfect. Nice set up by the way 
Also remember boost is just one variable, when it comes to how much hp you can generate on pump fuel.
IAT which is a product of how effecient your total system is plays a large factor. During the run my temps go about 10 degrees above ambient. And this is due to the fact that I run an AMS street intercooler, which is very efficient (end tanks core design) and has minimal pressure loss since it isn't very long lengthwise.
Exhaust back pressure is also very important, I am not running a Garrett shelf exhaust housing. In testing our setup shows a near 1 to 1 ratio between exhaust back pressure and intake manifold pressure.
Our downpipe is also a full 3 inches from the flange of the downpipe on with a non cheated radius.
My ignition timing is adjustable with a 1/10th of a degree of precision. And my fueling accurate to 0.00001 seconds.
IAT which is a product of how effecient your total system is plays a large factor. During the run my temps go about 10 degrees above ambient. And this is due to the fact that I run an AMS street intercooler, which is very efficient (end tanks core design) and has minimal pressure loss since it isn't very long lengthwise.
Exhaust back pressure is also very important, I am not running a Garrett shelf exhaust housing. In testing our setup shows a near 1 to 1 ratio between exhaust back pressure and intake manifold pressure.
Our downpipe is also a full 3 inches from the flange of the downpipe on with a non cheated radius.
My ignition timing is adjustable with a 1/10th of a degree of precision. And my fueling accurate to 0.00001 seconds.