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stroker vs. overbored and head being addressed

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Old Jul 30, 2006 | 09:43 AM
  #31  
homemade wrx's Avatar
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From: Mooresville, NC
Originally Posted by blackevo110
what about 10K unstroked and more power per displacement? so thats why im concerned about valvetrain, carrillo is going to be the way i end up going, expensive but worth it when we consider where this is going. Cosworth will be a possibility for heads, we found some that are a slight overbore and very strong, so we'll have to check the avenues available right now.

keep it coming guys, youre all a big help too!
ssshhhh....
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Old Jul 30, 2006 | 10:34 AM
  #32  
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From: Colorado
Originally Posted by homemade wrx
a stroke kit with a shorter rod ratio exerts more force on the side of the piston and the cylinder walls...increasing the wear on the piston and more importantly rings...
aside from that you have more rod angle and ultimately less power per stroke (displacement put aside) as the piston has less dwell and therefore less time to burn...with a better rod ratio you have more dwell and more time to burn you can ignite later and get a more complete burn having more pressure above the piston to force it down on the right side of the stroke...
Do a little reading on BMEP and flame propagation speeds...if only there was a long rod set up...

There is a long rod setup available. Magnus Motorsports offers a long rod which reduces the less favorable rod ratio for the stroker 2.3..., and makes for a very light 2.0 and 2.2 shortblock. Magnus offers rods in 150mm, 156mm, and 162mm lengths, and pistons to match. Also available are complete built 2.0 long rod, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, and 2.4 long rod shortblocks. Check them out here: http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/engines/dsm.htm

I expect that other engine builders may also offer similar builds.
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Old Jul 30, 2006 | 10:26 PM
  #33  
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From: Mooresville, NC
thanks for the link...
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Old Jul 30, 2006 | 10:33 PM
  #34  
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From: in front of your car
given your parts selection my guess is that this is a road race setup???

i would to go for the best of both worlds w/a 2.2L stroker. if you want to rev high, get the Norris Designs kit. 8800+rpm with no reliability issues. check into Omega for pistons (best in the business & std on FQ-400)

valve springs-JUN or Cosworth. nuff said

u could also look into a fully built Cosworth head & they can put your cams in for you...
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Old Jul 30, 2006 | 10:55 PM
  #35  
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You are in Ohio why not just call or go to Buschur, they will tell what works best for what you want. The have done alot of testing and have many differant set-ups (on shop cars ect and customers) which they found works well. Why try to re-create the wheel.

Maybe a stroker with a 50 trim or 3076r would be great in the power band you will have with a stroker. If you go with a built 2.0 and plan on reving high 9k the 3076r/50trim may run out of breath. I would then do a 35r or 37r (you could run this on the stroker .

Good luck and get the Visa/ check book ready. Keep a 2-5k reserve, stuff will break.

Last edited by IEXCELR8; Jul 30, 2006 at 11:00 PM. Reason: typo
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Old Jul 31, 2006 | 03:39 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by homemade wrx
... BMEP (affected by flame speed and relation to tdc/dwell)
inaccurate to wrong

the more directly down the piston is pushed the more power exerted...the longer the rod ratio the more power per stroke per unit of displacement the better...
wrong

===

Doesn't matter who you are and what you do, you don't at all understand IC engine basics.
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Old Jul 31, 2006 | 05:33 AM
  #37  
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From: Nj
Originally Posted by housedj
given your parts selection my guess is that this is a road race setup???

i would to go for the best of both worlds w/a 2.2L stroker. if you want to rev high, get the Norris Designs kit. 8800+rpm with no reliability issues. check into Omega for pistons (best in the business & std on FQ-400)

valve springs-JUN or Cosworth. nuff said

u could also look into a fully built Cosworth head & they can put your cams in for you...
Housedj you have to be one of the biggest promoters of random products on here. If your not pushing your hks Kansai intake manifold which you think solves civil war's, your promoting some other product you have no experience or familiarity with. Why don't you just keep your wastegate mod and your blatent aimless promotion of random exotic parts to yourself.

Scorke
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Old Jul 31, 2006 | 07:50 AM
  #38  
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From: Mooresville, NC
Originally Posted by ShaunSG
inaccurate to wrong



wrong

===

Doesn't matter who you are and what you do, you don't at all understand IC engine basics.
you are right in formula form it is not effected by the two...now when you run an engine's lab and have tested it like I have then you can come back and tell me I'm wrong...I think I know more about IC engine's than your ricer magazines have told you...what is your background in IC engines and the study there of?

all I'm saying is the more direct the ignition to top dead center (with dwell being a major player along with the flame speed) the better the burn and the more % of pressure is developed pushing the piston in the correct direction instead of against itself...that is how how you get more power per stroke per unit of displacement

Last edited by homemade wrx; Jul 31, 2006 at 07:53 AM.
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Old Jul 31, 2006 | 07:53 AM
  #39  
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Scorke, i hope youre not flaming someone inside my thread.

As for the set-up we have searched far and wide and not found what we plan to do. The peak power from it will be great, but will not be any massive turbo power...(i.e. AMS big turbo kits for straight line use ) the money isnt the issue and i know David personally im going to call him today.

i appreciate the input about the 2.2 storker, its still not quite what im looking for. We'll see how things turn out. Thanks everyone...

what about valvetrain? what seems to be working best with the guys revvin past 10-11k?
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Old Jul 31, 2006 | 07:55 AM
  #40  
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From: Mooresville, NC
Originally Posted by IEXCELR8
Maybe a stroker with a 50 trim or 3076r would be great in the power band you will have with a stroker. If you go with a built 2.0 and plan on reving high 9k the 3076r/50trim may run out of breath. I would then do a 35r or 37r (you could run this on the stroker.
the 30R kit I'm working on runs a unique A/R and different trim...still need to finish loading the turbo's compressor chart to my program...that way I can see when the 30R 32 and 35R all come in and top out...
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Old Jul 31, 2006 | 08:15 AM
  #41  
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From: KL,Malaysia
Originally Posted by blackevo110
Scorke, i hope youre not flaming someone inside my thread.

As for the set-up we have searched far and wide and not found what we plan to do. The peak power from it will be great, but will not be any massive turbo power...(i.e. AMS big turbo kits for straight line use ) the money isnt the issue and i know David personally im going to call him today.

i appreciate the input about the 2.2 storker, its still not quite what im looking for. We'll see how things turn out. Thanks everyone...

what about valvetrain? what seems to be working best with the guys revvin past 10-11k?
Call Buschur and all the probelm sloved
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Old Jul 31, 2006 | 08:48 AM
  #42  
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From: City O Sin, MA...the not so sinish part though...
Originally Posted by homemade wrx
all I'm saying is the more direct the ignition to top dead center the better the burn...
Can you explain that one? What do you mean by direct? The "quality" of the burn depends on so many different things, I can't seem to fathom what your talking about.
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Old Jul 31, 2006 | 08:52 AM
  #43  
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From: Nj
Who is building your exhaust manifold? I am curious as to how this turns out, are you using atp's divided housing back end?

Scorke
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Old Jul 31, 2006 | 09:26 AM
  #44  
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From: Mooresville, NC
Originally Posted by LetItBreath
Can you explain that one? What do you mean by direct? The "quality" of the burn depends on so many different things, I can't seem to fathom what your talking about.
ok, with mixture of fuel and air, the pressure when combustion starts to occurs affects the flames speed and quality of burn...this is due to the fact that if the piston can come closer to tdc and stay there longer their is a higher initial pressure to which a burn will begin..this also raises the temp in the cylinder (too high is a auto ignition...)...the high pressure, high temperature makes for a faster burn allowing for a ignition starting point closer to TDC...now compound this with certain engine geometry and you have longer dwell (time that the piston is near TDC and BDC) you can no use this latented ignition for benefits...
you don't have to ignite earlier in the stroke (making pressure above the piston as it approaches TDC)...you will now fire later (still before TDC) but the engine will be more free to rev and you can get more of the pressure from combustion to force the piston down after TDC...

kinda a half *** I'm tired of explaining things kinda answer...if you prod from here I will still answer more indepth but no need for one post...also jumbled lots of thoughts and re-edited so probably is hard to read/comprehend what I was getting at...


scorke: the manifold has been designed using helmholtz and will be built in-house (at least the prototypes)

Last edited by homemade wrx; Jul 31, 2006 at 09:29 AM.
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Old Jul 31, 2006 | 10:32 AM
  #45  
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From: City O Sin, MA...the not so sinish part though...
Originally Posted by homemade wrx
ok, with mixture of fuel and air, the pressure when combustion starts to occurs affects the flames speed and quality of burn...this is due to the fact that if the piston can come closer to tdc and stay there longer their is a higher initial pressure to which a burn will begin..this also raises the temp in the cylinder (too high is a auto ignition...)...the high pressure, high temperature makes for a faster burn allowing for a ignition starting point closer to TDC...now compound this with certain engine geometry and you have longer dwell (time that the piston is near TDC and BDC) you can no use this latented ignition for benefits...
you don't have to ignite earlier in the stroke (making pressure above the piston as it approaches TDC)...you will now fire later (still before TDC) but the engine will be more free to rev and you can get more of the pressure from combustion to force the piston down after TDC...

kinda a half *** I'm tired of explaining things kinda answer...if you prod from here I will still answer more indepth but no need for one post...also jumbled lots of thoughts and re-edited so probably is hard to read/comprehend what I was getting at...


scorke: the manifold has been designed using helmholtz and will be built in-house (at least the prototypes)
What your saying is kinda obvious(to anyone who knows about engines) but pretty irrelevent. Theres no adverse effect of igniting the fuel charge sooner. Ideally you'd want to set your spark early enough to acheive peak cylinder pressure around 14 degrees ATDC. Strokers make more torque at a given rpm simply because the longer throw gives the piston better leverage on the crank. It doesn't really have anything to do with how it burns fuel. If your talking about peak power numbers then what you just mentioned was somewhat relevent, but ultimately a stroker is going to give you much more usable power for the street at least.
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