Stock turbo + Cosworth Head
Originally Posted by trinydex
that's funny, half the people saying this will then turn around and tell buschur his car is the most amazing thing on earth.
the fact is if you open up the engine the turbo will then be the choke point. but saying the above is like saying it's pointless to put cams on the car because it's well documented that as soon as you put cams on the boost will drop more at redline.
but the FACT is that if you want to have a small turbo set up and not lose the top end you MUST do everything in your power to boost up the top end. how do you think buschur is able to squeeze so much out of his car? he has every single top end mod on a car that shouldn't have it! he has a tb, the full staged head, the big boy cams.
THAT'S what this would be good for.
the fact is if you open up the engine the turbo will then be the choke point. but saying the above is like saying it's pointless to put cams on the car because it's well documented that as soon as you put cams on the boost will drop more at redline.
but the FACT is that if you want to have a small turbo set up and not lose the top end you MUST do everything in your power to boost up the top end. how do you think buschur is able to squeeze so much out of his car? he has every single top end mod on a car that shouldn't have it! he has a tb, the full staged head, the big boy cams.
THAT'S what this would be good for.
Originally Posted by Soon2BEVO
Listen, Im not saying a ported head is worthless... but look at this guys mod list. The Cosworth head should NOT be on his list. He can do a lot of other things instead of spending $3800 on something thats going to give him minimal gains.
Curt Brown's EVO is a drag car with fully built motor, sheetmetal, race gas, methanol and 30+psi. I think thats a different scenario.
Curt Brown's EVO is a drag car with fully built motor, sheetmetal, race gas, methanol and 30+psi. I think thats a different scenario.
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Joined: Aug 2006
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if the cosworth head is design with the technical knowledge out of england most likely it is designed to increase power across the complete rpm range, that is why from what people are saying that the ports look kinda small, they usually use small ports, big valves to increase port air speed at low rpm but still flow more than stock at high rpm, but i may be wrong
Originally Posted by evo3matt
but it was on the stock turbo =P
now please quit the nut riding
edit: my bad i forgot to comment on the subject.
I agree with everyone else. no point spending 3.5k+ on something to get more flow in a head for a turbo that can barely pull in air as it is.
its a nice turbo and all for what it is but lets get real. you're only going to see justifyable gains with a gt30r+ turbo.
put that other money into full bolt ons and cams and alky and you'll throw down at least 100whp over stock if not 130whp+
good luck
Last edited by Kee1pride; Aug 17, 2006 at 01:58 PM.
the thing is what is justifyable is up to the individual. why do so many people put cams on their stock turbo cars? because they feel it's justifyable.
it also has a lot to do with rules and intent. you'd never tell an autocrosser to put anything like a gt series turbo on their car because that is just not suitable for the environment.
lastly, there are TWO ways to make power. ONE is to increase air flow the OTHER is to reduce restriction. a stage umpteenbillion cylinder head is suppose to do both but when increasing air flow is not an option due to bottlenecks elsewhere the ancillary benefit of reducing restrictions in the cylinder head is STILL applicable. it will STILL provide a bolstered top end.
whether or not it's worth it is not any ONE person's call for everyone else.
it also has a lot to do with rules and intent. you'd never tell an autocrosser to put anything like a gt series turbo on their car because that is just not suitable for the environment.
lastly, there are TWO ways to make power. ONE is to increase air flow the OTHER is to reduce restriction. a stage umpteenbillion cylinder head is suppose to do both but when increasing air flow is not an option due to bottlenecks elsewhere the ancillary benefit of reducing restrictions in the cylinder head is STILL applicable. it will STILL provide a bolstered top end.
whether or not it's worth it is not any ONE person's call for everyone else.
Originally Posted by trinydex
the thing is what is justifyable is up to the individual. why do so many people put cams on their stock turbo cars? because they feel it's justifyable.
it also has a lot to do with rules and intent. you'd never tell an autocrosser to put anything like a gt series turbo on their car because that is just not suitable for the environment.
lastly, there are TWO ways to make power. ONE is to increase air flow the OTHER is to reduce restriction. a stage umpteenbillion cylinder head is suppose to do both but when increasing air flow is not an option due to bottlenecks elsewhere the ancillary benefit of reducing restrictions in the cylinder head is STILL applicable. it will STILL provide a bolstered top end.
whether or not it's worth it is not any ONE person's call for everyone else.
it also has a lot to do with rules and intent. you'd never tell an autocrosser to put anything like a gt series turbo on their car because that is just not suitable for the environment.
lastly, there are TWO ways to make power. ONE is to increase air flow the OTHER is to reduce restriction. a stage umpteenbillion cylinder head is suppose to do both but when increasing air flow is not an option due to bottlenecks elsewhere the ancillary benefit of reducing restrictions in the cylinder head is STILL applicable. it will STILL provide a bolstered top end.
whether or not it's worth it is not any ONE person's call for everyone else.
[POWER GAINED FROM MODIFICATION] / [MONEY SPENT FOR MODIFICATION]
for instance, [30 HP FROM 280 CAMS] / [$480] = .0625 HP/Dollar
So for every $16.00 you spent on cams, you gained 1 HP.
Here is another example:
[30 HP from COSWORTH HEAD] / [$3800] = .008 HP/Dollar
So for every $125 spent on a cosworth head, you get 1 HP.
On a stock turbo car, the cosworth head is not worth the extra power it gains. If money is no object yes then go right ahead.
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Judging from your mods, you like to spend money on things you dont need, such as valve springs/retainers which are completely unnecessary with what you have. Also, 1000cc injectors are way overkill but I guess thats OK if you plan to upgrade in the future. Ralliart stuff... well... ya know. [/QUOTE]
1. The 1000cc injectors is cater for future plans & I dont like to see injectors pushed to their limit and run high risk of blown engine.
2. The next smaller size injectors cost the same anyway.
3. My autronic ecu has no problem controlling them & the car idles like stock.
My future plans are getting a better flow head and of course a bigger turbo. At this moment of time is whether to get the head done first or the bigger turbo. If the cosworth head goes first, then we all will the chance to see the result of stock turbo + cosworth head.
Lastly, I would to thanks all guys for your contributed views.
1. The 1000cc injectors is cater for future plans & I dont like to see injectors pushed to their limit and run high risk of blown engine.
2. The next smaller size injectors cost the same anyway.
3. My autronic ecu has no problem controlling them & the car idles like stock.
My future plans are getting a better flow head and of course a bigger turbo. At this moment of time is whether to get the head done first or the bigger turbo. If the cosworth head goes first, then we all will the chance to see the result of stock turbo + cosworth head.
Lastly, I would to thanks all guys for your contributed views.
Last edited by Dboey; Aug 18, 2006 at 09:39 AM.
Originally Posted by joeymia
buying a cosworth head and keeping the stock turbo is like buying 10k watch when all your clothes is from walmart.
oh ****, my bad, isn't that what you did?
Originally Posted by sonicnofadz
There is a way to measure efficiency, when it comes to modifying cars. Use this formula:
[POWER GAINED FROM MODIFICATION] / [MONEY SPENT FOR MODIFICATION]
for instance, [30 HP FROM 280 CAMS] / [$480] = .0625 HP/Dollar
So for every $16.00 you spent on cams, you gained 1 HP.
Here is another example:
[30 HP from COSWORTH HEAD] / [$3800] = .008 HP/Dollar
So for every $125 spent on a cosworth head, you get 1 HP.
On a stock turbo car, the cosworth head is not worth the extra power it gains. If money is no object yes then go right ahead.
[POWER GAINED FROM MODIFICATION] / [MONEY SPENT FOR MODIFICATION]
for instance, [30 HP FROM 280 CAMS] / [$480] = .0625 HP/Dollar
So for every $16.00 you spent on cams, you gained 1 HP.
Here is another example:
[30 HP from COSWORTH HEAD] / [$3800] = .008 HP/Dollar
So for every $125 spent on a cosworth head, you get 1 HP.
On a stock turbo car, the cosworth head is not worth the extra power it gains. If money is no object yes then go right ahead.
when is it too expensive to lose weight??? is a carbon fiber hood a waste of money too? when it takes 7 pounds off the highest part of the heaviest end of the car? how much are you willing to pay for that???
when it comes to competition sometimes that last bit is what wins... tell this stuff to evolutionary... maybe you'll change his mind about being competitive in autocross... maybe he'll give up on trying to make the best autocross machine he can and just build "driver's skill". keep talkin'.
First of all, yes I think carbon is a huge waste of money. The hood is already aluminum. Second of all we are not talking about weight loss!. 
We are talking about engine power modifications. Increasing engine power and taking weight off the chassis are entirely different things.
With that said, spending $3800.00 (more like $4500-$5000 after the installation is done) on a cylinder head that will net 20 HP to the wheels (with the intent of only using the stock turbo) can only be described one way:
RETARDED.
There too many other ways of making power for way less money. I have no idea why you are referring to warrtalon. I could care less if I share the same opinion with him or not, the fact of the matter is what you are saying just doesn't make any sense unless money is of no concern. Hell why not get titanium rims? That should net more wheel power than the head and only cost $10,000. How about a diamond plated steering wheel? Maybe a $100,000.00 gold paint job? If money is no object and your primary concern is to have the competitive edge, then yes, the $3800 cosworth head should be on the list of items to buy. But I doubt many people on this forum have that type of money to throw down the toilet.
We are talking about engine power modifications. Increasing engine power and taking weight off the chassis are entirely different things. With that said, spending $3800.00 (more like $4500-$5000 after the installation is done) on a cylinder head that will net 20 HP to the wheels (with the intent of only using the stock turbo) can only be described one way:
RETARDED.
There too many other ways of making power for way less money. I have no idea why you are referring to warrtalon. I could care less if I share the same opinion with him or not, the fact of the matter is what you are saying just doesn't make any sense unless money is of no concern. Hell why not get titanium rims? That should net more wheel power than the head and only cost $10,000. How about a diamond plated steering wheel? Maybe a $100,000.00 gold paint job? If money is no object and your primary concern is to have the competitive edge, then yes, the $3800 cosworth head should be on the list of items to buy. But I doubt many people on this forum have that type of money to throw down the toilet.
Last edited by sonicnofadz; Aug 18, 2006 at 02:28 PM.
Originally Posted by jbrown
Yeah I know, it's almost as dumb as putting a stroker in a car with a stock turbo!
oh ****, my bad, isn't that what you did?
oh ****, my bad, isn't that what you did?