Huh? Power number's being close? I'm not trying to argue with you but...no. Let's give my friend's car as a direct perfect example: 340whp on 20 psi pump gas on a 50 trim/stg3, 410 on a 61mm/stg5 on 20 psi. The 61mm/56trim wheel is pretty efficient on low boost and can make power on lower boost. I don't know how many cars you've seen dyno in person, but trust me, I've seen this on numerous cars all last year when I saw cars go in and out on a daily basis off/on the dyno; 70whp is close? Yes of course there is about a 3-500rpm difference in spool and a torque difference but I guarantee the 61mm car will walk the 50trim.

 

^ Well with those nubmers I would agree, but the bulk of the numbers that GT30's and 50 trims make on pump are closer to or over 400whp, and like exvitermini says the difference in spool is much closer to 100 numbers.

I have seen many aftermarket turbo'd evos dyno including my own, the bulk of hte 35R's and bigger have not impressed me mainly becuase they make far less TQ, which to me, is a measure of how usable your horsepower is.

Scorke

 

Exvitermini, you own a HP61 and had a 50 trim, tell this guy what is faster on pump gas (if you have facts(timeslips) post em up). To me it seems like you know the 50 trim is faster on pump, and almost as quick on race gas (at least on a stock block) am I wrong or would you agree with me on this?

Scorke

 

How about you compare your own car on 20 psi to a car running a 35R on 20 psi. I put money the 35r will still give you a run for your money.

 

362whp 339wtq Stock turb, pump gas.
397whp 398wtq Stock turbo, 93/alky.

441whp 354wtq TTR 50 trim, pump gas.
508whp 448wtq TTR 50 trim, 93/alky.

533whp 417wtq TTR HP61 93/alky.

- thats his sig.... If the 93/alky tunes are 25whp and 31wtq different, imagine how much less tq the HP61 is making on pump than the 50 trim...

I'll do some digging for a 35R at 20 psi, but I can guarantee those grpahs and results are going to be very hard to find due to the fact that those turbos really dont start to shine till the boost is cranked.

Scorke

 

Power wise on pump gas the 50 trim made about 40 more whp at the same boost level than the hp61.

I would most def have to agree the 50 trim would hand the 61 its *** on low boost. Put better fuel in and really crank the boost though, of course the 61 will shine.

On stock block I'm at a big tossup, I really don't know if the car would be faster with which turbo.

50 trim on pump I ran a 7.5@93 with a ****ty 60 ft. I have yet to run the 61 yet, we will see on friday barring good weather. I don't even bother to run pumpgas on the 61 as its a waste of time IMO.

 

Well I'm not gonna argue with you. I'll let you stick to your small turbos and I'll stick to mine. We'll see who's faster in the end.

 

^ Out of curiosity what turbo are you running? Judging by your sig your evo is still on the stocker, are you referring to your talon?

Also, I'm assuming by now you read what ExViTermini wrote directly above me, it seems I was correct regarding pump gas.....

Scorke

 

Just thought I would chime in a bit here. Horsepower is just a derivative of torque. It does not truly exist. What matters is torque numbers up top which in the case of forced induction, or even normally aspirated motors for that matter, is directly related to engine consumption of O2 and fuel at a given RPM. As consumption of O2 goes up the ability of the motor to provide air to the cylinders becomes more difficult. In naturally aspirated motors this is solved by intake/exhaust camshaft overlap as well as lift which allows more airflow at higher rpms and raises the powerband as a consequence. With forced induction, the efficiency of the turbo/blower to flow more lbs/min increases with size and fills those gaps. The faster drag guys tend to sacrifice low end torque which generally tends to peak around 5250 rpms or less for top end torque which will peak closer to 5250 rpms and carry through a lot better. In those instances the disadvantage, or whatever, of a lower torque value is negated through gearing, high stall torque converters, more efficient powerband, etc.

Case in point, I have a buddy with an LT1 camaro, which had a peak torque of 440 lb ft which resulted in roughly 340 horse power. My LS1 Camaro has a peak torque of 382 lb ft which resulted in a horsepower peak of 432 at roughly 6500 rpms. My car runs the 1320 roughly 1.5 seconds faster than his.

 

What did you clarify or explain exactly, that the more advanced more powerfull LS1 is a better engine than the LT1?

Scorke

 

No I explained the fact that the potential for a faster 1/4 mile exists in the 61 than the 50 trim. It is in the numbers. Peak torque values don't mean squat in the realm of drag racing. Why do you think all the fastest evo shops run 2.0l instead of 2.3l? The LT1 is actually just as good an engine as the LS1. The example was to state my point that in attaining quarter mile times peak torque values don't paint the whole picture. Faster cars are faster because of the torque curve in the powerband not because of a value which is higher a lot of times due to a tuning inefficiency etc.

 

what did you do with the 50trim? is it rebuildable?

 

Scorke, don't forget that the Apex'i RX6 actually holds the record for highest horsepower on pump gas.

And also the stock 16g turbo holds the torque record on pump gas.

Just to clarify...

 

I sold it. I don't think it was rebuildable, and if it was, it was an Innovative unit and I don't think most shops can rebuild them?

 

However, looking at the graphs, they look nearly identical. Are those SAE corrected? I am noticing that in the first graph he is making 533/400 at 7000 RPMs and in the second it looks like 500/410 at 7000 RPMs...