I appreciate your response Ted B.. how do you feel about the loading of Dyno Dynamics machines? Also, can you explain how low load = less chance of det?

 

I made no statement regarding spool characteristics.

I contended that reducing load reduces resistance on the crankshaft, reduces heat, and reduces detonation. If the load is reduced sufficiently, low octane fuel can deliver high-octane fuel performance. Of course, this isn't reality on the street.

 

IMO, a Dyno Dynamics unit gives the closest approximation to real world street loading, and therefore is a great tool for street tuning. Anyone who's worked with an inertia dyno (e.g. Dynojet) will tell you that tuning to the 'edge' on the dyno puts things over the edge on the street.

 

Well Ted B I am staring at GT35R DD graph from the MLR at 2.3 bar of boost with peak power ATW of 412. So I am inclined to think this is a real world scenario happening right now in the UK. (eg 2 bar+ of boost on 99/100 RON)

 

The dyno is in what mode and what is the correction factor?

 

And we are making that same power with 22-24psi (1.5-1.6 bar) on that same turbo with pump gas (93oct). I do not see why you'd think 412whp at over 33psi is a good thing when we have stock turbo'd Evos getting pretty close to that with the same boost.

33psi is what you run on a GT35R to make 600+whp, not 450-ish...

 

If I recall and I am not expert... all RR results which are stored in the MLR Modified section of the Lancer Register are from sanctioned dyno days and I think the mode used is always shootout 44? I'm pretty clueless just an avid board reader.

 

I said DYNO DYNAMICS... most of your results are DynoJet which Dan Buschur has said are basically giving out flywheel numbers. 400 bhp on a DD is like 520 flywheel.

 

I know it's DD. I'm speaking with that conversion to Dynojet in mind. Plus, we have PUHHHHHLENTY of results on Dyno Dynamics, so I know how they all read. You don't think we only have Dynojets here do you? Notice how I said 450-ish at the end? That's what your 412 would equate to on a Dynojet anyway approximately...450-ish, not 520, because no, Dynojet numbers do not equal engine dyno numbers. You're really stretching it now and are getting way too caught up in this number conversion crap.

Anyway, dyno type does not change the fact that running 33psi on pump gas is ludicrous nor the fact that the numbers you quoted are no better than GT35Rs running 22-24psi.

 

Just a minute you two!

Shootout mode (most commonly used in the UK) gives estimated bhp numbers, which turn out to be close to Dynojet numbers. Be advised! This being the case, 412 is very low for 2.3 bar (33-34psi), and raises a serious concern . . .

Anyone can crank up the boost with low octane fuel on the street, so long as the ignition timing is retarded - very far. This gives no greater power than less boost and a more realistic ignition map, and increases the EGT significantly. I'd love to know what the EGT was for this car, and I'll bet it was through the roof.

For the sake of comparison, I made 397ATW with a GT35R on 93 octane (U.S.) at only 1.55 bar, and the dyno was in regular mode. In shootout mode, this works out to be ~450ATW.

I hope this sheds some clarification on the subject, and it sounds like those UK guys running all that pressure on low octane fuel are slowly cooking their exhaust components with all that heat.

 

Funny, that's exactly what I said on page one that got these two so fired up. Maybe they'll believe good ole Ted B, because they certainly didn't believe me.

 

Guys I appreciate your time and I understand your skepticism. I am totally the wrong person to help explain things. I do believe they are running more boost on equivalent pump fuel in the UK. And I do believe they are making more power. But that is just my opinion and I am no expert.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable will shed some light on this, maybe they won't. I hope for the former.

Btw... the DD result I quoted was not nearly the highest for GT35R on the UK. It was just one I happened to be looking at.

And yes I know you can retard ignition dramatically to up boost. Let's forget about that BS and assume the guys who've been tuning evos since the 1 in the UK actually know what they are doing and are only increasing boost because it helps!

 

All we have are a bunch of fudged numbers and claims of people running ridiculously high boost levels on pump gas. Do you have any track results to verify? We have plenty of 10 second runs with 130+mph trap speeds (high boost, high octane), and lots of other 120+mph trap speeds (low boost, low octane). What we don't have is ANYONE trying to run 33psi on pump gas - that just makes no sense.

 

Rest assured my reason for bringing this thread up was not numbers bragging... it's not my car and I don't even live in the UK. The purpose was simple curiousity. I read both message boards, and just did not understand the differences I was seeing.

And btw those "fudged up" numbers are engine dyno numbers. Anyways, ultimately anyone can come on here and post a number whether it by a 1/4 mile time or power number. It's the reality of things but we manage to get at the truth in time I think.

 

You wildly underestimate the mapper here Ted if you think he just cranks up the boost and superheats the exhaust, and hasn't thought of trying lower boost and more timing. This mapper has 200 mph 2.0 litre engines in full weight road cars that hold together. I think he'd have learned by his breakages by now if there was something he needed your schooling on

The loading on an engine dyno can be much HIGHER than the road which is why we see the amazingly broad power bands that tend to be narrower when they are later chassis dyno tested. So this would expose the problem not hide it. Some tuners do not use engine dynos because they feel that the ignition maps end up more retarded than necessary.

I was under the impression that shoot44 was a standardisation to stop cheating, not a method by which to ADD 53 WHP.

What is obvious and ludicrous on one side of the Atlantic in terms of octane, boost and dynos is not on the other. Some MLR users find US dyno figures as hilarious as you find 2+ bar boost on pump fuel. I try to keep an open mind and learn from both schools.