Do NOT ASSume anything

This is why i test

 

No doubt that HKS is a very good product

Anyone who lumps HKS in the Ebay catagory is seriusly mistaken

HKS has an entire testing and R & D facility in which they make their stuff

This is why I always recomend HKS cams

You do get what you pay for when you buy HKS

But - remember - the Buschur unit made more power and weighs much less and costs significantly less

 

Thanks for testing again Al. You have more patience than I do.

Not that the haters will believe me but........

Al called me last night and said he was getting ready to do the testing. Immediately after the first pull Al called and said ours made more power but the car was quite a bit leaner now with our exhaust on the car. He said he was going to change the AFR's and get the to be equal so nobody would cry about the testing. Didn't help though from the looks of this thread.

When Al called back and gave me the final results I asked if he could make more power with a timing change and he said, "Yes of course, the cars knock count dropped when we put your exhaust on." I asked he would do it and he said, "It's getting late, I have to get the customers car back together and get out of here."

So the power was back to back but the AFR's were made the same with no timing changes.

HKS is one of the best companies out there for producing quality parts. For a back to back test and not taking advantage of any extra timing the car could have had, I'd say this is great for Buschur Racing. Add to the test that our system is 20 pounds lighter and cheaper..................

Thanks again Al. You should just sell the V-band, put the money in your pocket and stop getting bashed.

 

Ah yes, confirmation on why I sold my HKS catback for the buschur Bullet...

The Buschur exhaust made more power and reduced the knock count on a lightly modded car. Just think of what it would do on a not so lightly modded car...

 

good testing

 

Come on, HKS farms out their stuff to China as well. A majority of the development work goes like this...

• New car comes out
• Products are developed by company x and shopped around to HKS, Greddy, etc.
• If they like the product it is mass produced in China and badged accordingly

 

I hope you aren't suggesting that those who ask questions about testing are all bashers and haters. There are a lot of legimate questions that come up when it comes to testing. For example, the fact that the "knock count dropped" with the Buschur exhaust makes me wonder -- how high was that knock count with the HKS? Enough to pull timing? And if so, did the Buschur exhaust run leaner because the timing wasn't pulled? Maybe the car with the HKS would have made more power with a less aggressive timing map? Etc.

I don't think these sort of questions make me a hater or a basher. I think they make me a critical thinker

Anyway, I have a Buschur turboback and a lot of other Buschur parts on my car, so I'm definitely not a hater or a basher, but when it comes to tests like this I always am wondering about all of the facts and I, like many others, like to ask questions and don't want to feel like I'm going to be viewed as a detractor simply when I ask questions that weren't addressed in the original write-up. You do a good job of foreseeing questions that folks are going to have and address them proactively when you post up testing results. Al doesn't always take the time to think it all through and do the same.

 

Some people will always bash but why do we pay attention to them? Just ignore ignorant people.

I think you made a good point Dave when you said this is a great thing for BR. If you can hang with a so-called heavy hitter in the Japanese tuning market then I say this is good for you, good for us, and good for the USA (and OH). I am just happy that my HKS performs as well as it did here. I bought it years ago before I was as educated about these cars as I am now but as it turns out that decision wasnt so bad. Now my car will just have a hybrid TBE and everything else will be Buschur and I can expect similar gains from a true BR stage 4 mod set and my set up which will be the same except for the TBE.

Info is never a bad thing, even if the results turn out differently then you expect so I think everyone should encourage any and all testing that comes available with any part, whether exhaust or whatever.

 

That is exactly the case...you hit the nail on the head. Al even said in the initial post that the car was knock happy.

The ECU pulls timing due to knock, which could also affect AFRs. If this was tuned by Al, the low and high maps were most likely set the same, so the decrease in octane number wouldn't cause the low maps to be used at all, though.

Even if the HKS exhaust had 3 counts of knock more than the Buschur exhaust, that could be a 1* difference in timing, which can be roughly equal to 10 HP.

Al, don't get me wrong....I, too, applaud you for doing the testing. But, if the testing conditions aren't the same from one test to the next, then it isn't a comparison. It seems like you always try to sway the results the way you want them...that's why people are always arguing with you.

I can take a car that's knocking and dyno it, then put a sticker on the bumper and retune for no knock and gain 20 whp. Does that mean that the sticker made 20 whp? Come on already. If you really wanted a test between the two exhausts you would have tuned the HKS exhaust pefectly, dynoed, then put on the Buschur and tuned that exhaust, if any additional tuning was needed, then compare.


Eric

 

Is that based on fact or opinion. Manufacturing capabilty and design capability are two different things. So you're saying that HKS does not actually have R & D? Manufacturing of parts in China ,Taiwan etc is common practice for numerous products that we buy. R & D is quite another thing. My Motorola Q is made in China does it mean that Motorola didn't or couldn't design it?

 

FACT and I never said HKS doesn't perform R&D. How much R&D goes in to an exhaust as simple as the one used for the EVO? It is 3" with minimal bends to the muffler. With the same muffler, there will be no difference between the busher and ebay special. BTW, some guy sent me an e-mail and made a good point. We export metal to china and it is then sold back to the US as pipe, probably the same pipe a majority of us buy for our DIY projects.

If I am HKS and a company comes to me and shows me product, I can then evaluate either by testing or looks. They say to me, you can have this exhaust for $200 and retail for $800 if you purchase 500 sets. How hard is that decision?

Maybe, but a phone is not an exhaust?

 

wow.. Iam actually in the process of selling my HKS for an AMS system.

 

I'm not discounting what you are saying,there are numerous items sold by Japanese companies that are made and designed in China. Which is why I find it funny that people are more concerned with the brand name of an item,when the item as you correctly stated is just badge engineered in quite a few cases. On the other hand HKS exhausts, are manufactured in Japan by them. Another in the group is Fujitsubo and they actually manufacture for a few other Japanese brands also.

 

I want to see Buschur O2+tbe vs RNR 02 eliminator tbe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Most resonators on japanese exhaust have an ID of ~65mm...