The Turbo Landscape in Detail
How come when I ask people what size turbo they are running they always say T3/T4....i always thought that was flange size....For example i have seen turbos that were physically different in size but yet both owners keep saying its a T3/T4 by so and so.
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From: Birmingham, AL
T3/T4 hyrbid is the generic name for any turbo that mixes and matches hot and cold sides from two different turbo families, so yeah like the example you gave where you have a bigger compressor wheel teamed with a smaller turbine wheel. That way a small engine has the chance to spool a big effecient compressor. But there are so many combinations that just saying t3/t4 hybrid doesn't give much info.
T04 "S" and "R" are different compressor covers.
T04 "S" and "R" are different compressor covers.
^ Yeah that is what I keep telling my friend and he's like:
"Well what's bigger a T3 turbo or a T60???"
I say "Well there are T3 GT35 turbos which it has a 61mm compressor wheel and...."
He goes "The answer is the T60!!!"
I'm like "Do you know the size of the turbine wheel on a T60???"
He gets confused by my question and leaves.....noobs.
"Well what's bigger a T3 turbo or a T60???"
I say "Well there are T3 GT35 turbos which it has a 61mm compressor wheel and...."
He goes "The answer is the T60!!!"
I'm like "Do you know the size of the turbine wheel on a T60???"
He gets confused by my question and leaves.....noobs.
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Bump... can someone help me figure out the exducer size of the Full-Race T67 and Garrett GT30? I tried to solve for the Exducer variable from the formulas on Garrett's site but I think I'm being retarded and can't figure it out.
Code:
Garrett Precision Full-Race Garrett
GT3582R PT6776R FR T3/T67 GT3076R
Turbine Housing T3 T4 T3 T3
Turbine Inducer 68mm 74.2mm 67mm 60mm
Turbine Trim 84 ??? 76 84
Turbine Exducer ??? ??? ??? ???
Turbine A/R 3 options ??? 2 options 3 options
---------------------------------------------------------------
Compressor Exducer 81.5mm 84mm 84mm 76.2mm
Compressor Trim 56 63 63 56
Compressor Inducer 61mm 66.6mm 66.7mm 57mm
Compressor A/R .70 ??? .70 .60
Ball Bearing yes yes yes yes
Last edited by crcain; Aug 6, 2007 at 07:17 AM.
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Ok how about a new question regarding A/R...
What type of peak horsepower gain would one expect when moving from .63 AR to a .82 A/R for a GT3582R? And likewise, moving from a .63 to a 1.06?
What would be the losses in terms of reaching peak boost?
What type of peak horsepower gain would one expect when moving from .63 AR to a .82 A/R for a GT3582R? And likewise, moving from a .63 to a 1.06?
What would be the losses in terms of reaching peak boost?
ill do my best to answer your questions
The PT67 is the same as AMS' GT37R which is the same as our T3/T67HO which is the same as the ATP T04Z which is almost the same as the HKS T04Z/R... almost everyone sells their own variation on the same turbo. Garrett makes the entire turbo from wheels to housings, but none of this turbo is GT.
Our T67 uses the same compressor wheel as everyone else, and its an 84mm exducer
There are (2) GT30 turbos. The Garrett GT3071R uses a 71mm exducer. The GT3076R uses a 76mm inducer. Garrett's new nomenclature names the turbos by their exducers instead of the inducer. maybe a marketing ploy to make their turbos sound "larger"?? lol who knows
Assuming you are talking about a standard single scroll setup (since that is 99.9% of all setups) the change in housing size will depend entirely on the engine and its associated breathing characteristics. A Honda B sereis or K series for example will spool identically with the .82 as they do with the .63, no change in spool. The .82 however has a much broader powerband than the .63, so the .63 makes no sense.
On an evo, they generally act like SR20DETs in that they dont like particularly large housings. The .82 could change spool by 300rpm later and might not make much power... or if the 4G breathes really well it might act like a honda.
i have some good comparisons of just housing changes if you want to see, let me know. the answer is "it depends"...
There are (2) GT30 turbos. The Garrett GT3071R uses a 71mm exducer. The GT3076R uses a 76mm inducer. Garrett's new nomenclature names the turbos by their exducers instead of the inducer. maybe a marketing ploy to make their turbos sound "larger"?? lol who knows
On an evo, they generally act like SR20DETs in that they dont like particularly large housings. The .82 could change spool by 300rpm later and might not make much power... or if the 4G breathes really well it might act like a honda.
i have some good comparisons of just housing changes if you want to see, let me know. the answer is "it depends"...
Last edited by Geoff Raicer; Aug 6, 2007 at 01:59 PM.
The biggest players in the turbo industry (not just aftermarket, but EVERYTHING like Catepillar, Kenworth, etc) are Garret/Honeywell Turbo and Borg Warner (which bought out KKK). Pretty much anything that is turbo out there, it's going to have either a Garrett or BW turbo. The smaller players include IHI, and, uh, the other small guys 
HKS uses Garrett CHRAs but I think they make their own turbine and compressor housings. I think Precision turbo also uses Garrett CHRAs. Turbonetics do all their own stuff now, basically old Garrett stuff with a couple different things thrown in.
HKS uses Garrett CHRAs but I think they make their own turbine and compressor housings. I think Precision turbo also uses Garrett CHRAs. Turbonetics do all their own stuff now, basically old Garrett stuff with a couple different things thrown in.
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Ok thanks Geoff.. now this is fully populated with wheel sizes and trims.
When I was asking about A/R, I was thinking specifically of GT3582R which is single scroll. I was just using this as an example of what type of effect A/R has on the 4G63. Assume a fully built head, cams, etc GT35 car making about 600 brake. What would likely happen to this car switching up to the .82 A/R?
What if the above car was a 4G64 2.4 litre rather than 2 litre 4G63?
I noticed Full-Race's turbo kit which is a step up from a GT35R, is again a GT35R... anybody know the differences between these two turbos? Is it just A/R?
Code:
Garrett Precision Full-Race Garrett
GT3582R PT6776R FR T3/T67 GT3076R
Turbine Housing T3 T4 T3 T3
Turbine Inducer 68mm 74.2mm 67mm 60mm
Turbine Trim 84 78 76 84
Turbine Exducer 82mm 84mm 84mm 76mm
Turbine A/R 3 options ??? 2 options 3 options
---------------------------------------------------------------
Compressor Exducer 81.5mm 84mm 84mm 76.2mm
Compressor Trim 56 63 63 56
Compressor Inducer 61mm 66.6mm 66.7mm 57mm
Compressor A/R .70 ??? .70 .60
Ball Bearing yes yes yes yes
What if the above car was a 4G64 2.4 litre rather than 2 litre 4G63?
I noticed Full-Race's turbo kit which is a step up from a GT35R, is again a GT35R... anybody know the differences between these two turbos? Is it just A/R?
Ok thanks Geoff.. now this is fully populated with wheel sizes and trims....
When I was asking about A/R, I was thinking specifically of GT3582R which is single scroll. I was just using this as an example of what type of effect A/R has on the 4G63. Assume a fully built head, cams, etc GT35 car making about 600 brake. What would likely happen to this car switching up to the .82 A/R?
What if the above car was a 4G64 2.4 litre rather than 2 litre 4G63?
I noticed Full-Race's turbo kit which is a step up from a GT35R, is again a GT35R... anybody know the differences between these two turbos? Is it just A/R?
When I was asking about A/R, I was thinking specifically of GT3582R which is single scroll. I was just using this as an example of what type of effect A/R has on the 4G63. Assume a fully built head, cams, etc GT35 car making about 600 brake. What would likely happen to this car switching up to the .82 A/R?
What if the above car was a 4G64 2.4 litre rather than 2 litre 4G63?
I noticed Full-Race's turbo kit which is a step up from a GT35R, is again a GT35R... anybody know the differences between these two turbos? Is it just A/R?
The correct measurements for the p trim turbine are: 2.922" (inducer/major dia) and 2.544" (exducer/minor dia) this is a 76 trim btw
assuming you are running a traditional 35R kit on any tubular manifold, the change from the .63 to .82 will usually spool about 100-200rpm later and will gain up top according to your head, cams and intake manifold. As boost goes up, the gains grow. I try to never use the .63 on a gt35r, especially if the application will see high boost at high rpm.
For a larger dispalcement motor, you will usually want to be on a larger housing, but that will also vary according to how high the engine revs, which will be dictated largely by the cams and intake manifold. The better the engine breathes and/or the larger the displacement, a larger turbine housing should be considered. also a .82 will respond very differently on a T3/T67 than a gt35R due to the 11 blade P trim wheel vs the 10 blade Gt35R turbine
i hope this helps a bit
