built blocks AMS, B/R, JAM.. Who to go with and why
Yeah that does rub me the wrong way. I have 1 year of drag raceing under my belt.
What you make on a dynojet is what you make a dynojet does not lie. Now getting a car at my level down the track is another story. If i had a shop and been doing this for a long time yes i could head to the track and run better times.
I ran 9.4 at 157. Do you have a clue how fast that is? have you driven a car like this? There are allot of other people on here making the same power but run about the same time i do. David seems to be the only one that can pull that trick off with that turbo. He even said that 99% of people here will not run that fast with that setup. You have driver,tuning,and other things...
What you make on a dynojet is what you make a dynojet does not lie. Now getting a car at my level down the track is another story. If i had a shop and been doing this for a long time yes i could head to the track and run better times.
I ran 9.4 at 157. Do you have a clue how fast that is? have you driven a car like this? There are allot of other people on here making the same power but run about the same time i do. David seems to be the only one that can pull that trick off with that turbo. He even said that 99% of people here will not run that fast with that setup. You have driver,tuning,and other things...
thanks for clarifying
ifarted2....i dont mean to rub it in or anything...but you are making a coupla hundred hps than david buschus is on his RS with full interior and a sound system while your car is fully stripped and full race preped...how come you only run 9.5s ??
anything i am missing bro..
Thanks
anything i am missing bro..
Thanks
I personally feel like a ignorant buffon knowing that Buschur's street car with DVD player and door beams is nearly as fast as my drag evo with Gt42
The reality is that Buschur has accomplished an amazing feat by having his daily driven street car go as fast as many of the so called race cars out there including mine
Buschur has been and remains the undisputed grand master of the 4G63
The fact that the machine shop accross dfrom his shop is one of the nations top engine builders is just icing on the cake - I have been there wacthing engine's for people like JEG's and Jesse James being broken in on the engine dyno at that machine shop
Lets face it - Buschur has been there done that a long time ago he was going 7's with crap outsated turbos and a VPC
Al
Thread Starter
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Joined: Dec 2007
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From: nj
2 pages and 1 post that has helped me out. wow.
anyway that you GSNT for your info. now if we can get other people to reply like you we would be moving in the right direction.
i dont want to know where i should go. i want to know why each shop builds the way they do and what OTHERS are experiancing from each shop's motor. i want to know why the shops do and dont do things to the blocks.
again THANKS GSNT for your info. exactly what i was looking for.
anyway that you GSNT for your info. now if we can get other people to reply like you we would be moving in the right direction.
i dont want to know where i should go. i want to know why each shop builds the way they do and what OTHERS are experiancing from each shop's motor. i want to know why the shops do and dont do things to the blocks.
again THANKS GSNT for your info. exactly what i was looking for.
Yeah that does rub me the wrong way. I have 1 year of drag raceing under my belt.
What you make on a dynojet is what you make a dynojet does not lie. Now getting a car at my level down the track is another story. If i had a shop and been doing this for a long time yes i could head to the track and run better times.
I ran 9.4 at 157. Do you have a clue how fast that is? have you driven a car like this? There are allot of other people on here making the same power but run about the same time i do. David seems to be the only one that can pull that trick off with that turbo. He even said that 99% of people here will not run that fast with that setup. You have driver,tuning,and other things...
What you make on a dynojet is what you make a dynojet does not lie. Now getting a car at my level down the track is another story. If i had a shop and been doing this for a long time yes i could head to the track and run better times.
I ran 9.4 at 157. Do you have a clue how fast that is? have you driven a car like this? There are allot of other people on here making the same power but run about the same time i do. David seems to be the only one that can pull that trick off with that turbo. He even said that 99% of people here will not run that fast with that setup. You have driver,tuning,and other things...
Yes I have a clue what it feels like to have 1,000 whp and go mid 9's
You are I are hobbiests of drag racing with a lot to learn and very limited practical experience crafting high whp import machines
There is no "trick" to what David has done with his car
Anyone can duplicate it by buying the same set up from him and having him tune it - sure Trent is a fast driver but there are many fast drivers out there all over
What you "have" is a combination of Daniel and David Buschur who know more about the DSM and how to get it to go fast than 99.99999% of the so called experts and a whole lot of natural talent and resources at their disposal.
There is no accident that Evan Griffey called them the "Boost Brothers"
To be the beauty in what they do is in the simplistic approach, economy of design and the balance and selection of the components. The end result is consistantly excelent all the time.
There are a lot of Buschur haters out there who try and out do them and wind up spending small fortunes on dozens of "set ups" changing one set up and then going to another to try and catch Buschur Racing.
All I can say is that I am proud to be a member of the Buschur Team
Best of luck to everyone in 2008
To the topic starter, consider that you did post your questions on New Years Eve and today is New Years Day. All shops are closed. Eric Jones obviously has answered you on his own time as I am doing too. I guess neither of us has a real life. haha It also explains your lack of input so far.....
Anyway. Answer to some of your questions.
Venolia, it was the first piston I ever used to build a 4g63 back in probably 1991-1992. It was very heavy. Probably the first design they ever built for the engines. We use JE now, it's a custom built piston that we have changed and continued to develop for the last 10+ years.
Compression, the stock compression is 8.8:1. It works and works very well, so staying right at 9:1 works well. I've built engines from 7.5:1 up to 12:1 over the years. 9:1 has worked very well and it is a good place to target.
O-rings in the block. Yes, we can do that. It is an option. We o-ring our cylinder heads actually, that is standard on our Stage 3 heads. It is what we prefer and recommend. If your head is already done and not o-ringed then o-ring the block while you are building it.
Bore size. We have a LOT of pistons on the shelf, all our custom built JE's. I prefer to build all of the engines standard bore, that's not always possible, so I generally go .020 after that.
Knife edging. We do not offer a knife edged crank for the EVO, not at all, never have. The old 6 bolt engines we do knife edge, the counter weights on the crank are much wider than the EVO engine so it is beneficial on those engines.
The crank does absolutely get into the oil but not when the car is sitting still, when the oil is sloshing around on a launch or hard braking.
I think we build the best engines in the business, so does everyone else, so there is no point in argueing about it.
I will point out that WE believe in the 2 liter. It's what we build the most, it's what WE RUN. So, maybe if a 2 liter is what you are looking at going with us for that particular engine because we run it ourselves and have countless records using it is the selling point I should pass on. Enough of the sales pitch.
Happy New Year.
Anyway. Answer to some of your questions.
Venolia, it was the first piston I ever used to build a 4g63 back in probably 1991-1992. It was very heavy. Probably the first design they ever built for the engines. We use JE now, it's a custom built piston that we have changed and continued to develop for the last 10+ years.
Compression, the stock compression is 8.8:1. It works and works very well, so staying right at 9:1 works well. I've built engines from 7.5:1 up to 12:1 over the years. 9:1 has worked very well and it is a good place to target.
O-rings in the block. Yes, we can do that. It is an option. We o-ring our cylinder heads actually, that is standard on our Stage 3 heads. It is what we prefer and recommend. If your head is already done and not o-ringed then o-ring the block while you are building it.
Bore size. We have a LOT of pistons on the shelf, all our custom built JE's. I prefer to build all of the engines standard bore, that's not always possible, so I generally go .020 after that.
Knife edging. We do not offer a knife edged crank for the EVO, not at all, never have. The old 6 bolt engines we do knife edge, the counter weights on the crank are much wider than the EVO engine so it is beneficial on those engines.
The crank does absolutely get into the oil but not when the car is sitting still, when the oil is sloshing around on a launch or hard braking.
I think we build the best engines in the business, so does everyone else, so there is no point in argueing about it.
I will point out that WE believe in the 2 liter. It's what we build the most, it's what WE RUN. So, maybe if a 2 liter is what you are looking at going with us for that particular engine because we run it ourselves and have countless records using it is the selling point I should pass on. Enough of the sales pitch.
Happy New Year.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: nj
david
i like what you said. and again thanks for some good info.
some questions.
u said all your heads stage 3+ come with o-ring job. well what if i o-ring the block and then get your head?? is 2 o-ring jobs ok?? hahaha.
you said you use .20 bore. are you able to do a .40 bore??
ty and happy new year to u too.
i like what you said. and again thanks for some good info.
some questions.
u said all your heads stage 3+ come with o-ring job. well what if i o-ring the block and then get your head?? is 2 o-ring jobs ok?? hahaha.
you said you use .20 bore. are you able to do a .40 bore??
ty and happy new year to u too.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5
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From: nj
why do you not recommend a.40 bore?? i dont care if i trash the motor and have room to bore out again. all i want is the most power i can get out of it and able to hold it. get what im saying? would a motor with .40 9.1 c/r make more power/trq then a motor with same specs but using a .20 bore?? idk this is why im asking. also ill be on pump 93oct running 25ish psi and on c16 30+.
Eric Jones already mentioned that the cylinder walls start getting thin and can crack under high power with .040 over bores.
Also, the power difference from a stock bore to a .040" over bore will be negligable. If I did my calculations correctly, there is 2.93 cubic inch difference between a stock bore and a .040" over bore.....thats .048 liters. Not going to do anything for you.
Also, the power difference from a stock bore to a .040" over bore will be negligable. If I did my calculations correctly, there is 2.93 cubic inch difference between a stock bore and a .040" over bore.....thats .048 liters. Not going to do anything for you.
To the topic starter, consider that you did post your questions on New Years Eve and today is New Years Day. All shops are closed. Eric Jones obviously has answered you on his own time as I am doing too. I guess neither of us has a real life. haha It also explains your lack of input so far.....
Anyway. Answer to some of your questions.
Venolia, it was the first piston I ever used to build a 4g63 back in probably 1991-1992. It was very heavy. Probably the first design they ever built for the engines. We use JE now, it's a custom built piston that we have changed and continued to develop for the last 10+ years.
Compression, the stock compression is 8.8:1. It works and works very well, so staying right at 9:1 works well. I've built engines from 7.5:1 up to 12:1 over the years. 9:1 has worked very well and it is a good place to target.
O-rings in the block. Yes, we can do that. It is an option. We o-ring our cylinder heads actually, that is standard on our Stage 3 heads. It is what we prefer and recommend. If your head is already done and not o-ringed then o-ring the block while you are building it.
Bore size. We have a LOT of pistons on the shelf, all our custom built JE's. I prefer to build all of the engines standard bore, that's not always possible, so I generally go .020 after that.
Knife edging. We do not offer a knife edged crank for the EVO, not at all, never have. The old 6 bolt engines we do knife edge, the counter weights on the crank are much wider than the EVO engine so it is beneficial on those engines.
The crank does absolutely get into the oil but not when the car is sitting still, when the oil is sloshing around on a launch or hard braking.
I think we build the best engines in the business, so does everyone else, so there is no point in argueing about it.
I will point out that WE believe in the 2 liter. It's what we build the most, it's what WE RUN. So, maybe if a 2 liter is what you are looking at going with us for that particular engine because we run it ourselves and have countless records using it is the selling point I should pass on. Enough of the sales pitch.
Happy New Year.
Anyway. Answer to some of your questions.
Venolia, it was the first piston I ever used to build a 4g63 back in probably 1991-1992. It was very heavy. Probably the first design they ever built for the engines. We use JE now, it's a custom built piston that we have changed and continued to develop for the last 10+ years.
Compression, the stock compression is 8.8:1. It works and works very well, so staying right at 9:1 works well. I've built engines from 7.5:1 up to 12:1 over the years. 9:1 has worked very well and it is a good place to target.
O-rings in the block. Yes, we can do that. It is an option. We o-ring our cylinder heads actually, that is standard on our Stage 3 heads. It is what we prefer and recommend. If your head is already done and not o-ringed then o-ring the block while you are building it.
Bore size. We have a LOT of pistons on the shelf, all our custom built JE's. I prefer to build all of the engines standard bore, that's not always possible, so I generally go .020 after that.
Knife edging. We do not offer a knife edged crank for the EVO, not at all, never have. The old 6 bolt engines we do knife edge, the counter weights on the crank are much wider than the EVO engine so it is beneficial on those engines.
The crank does absolutely get into the oil but not when the car is sitting still, when the oil is sloshing around on a launch or hard braking.
I think we build the best engines in the business, so does everyone else, so there is no point in argueing about it.
I will point out that WE believe in the 2 liter. It's what we build the most, it's what WE RUN. So, maybe if a 2 liter is what you are looking at going with us for that particular engine because we run it ourselves and have countless records using it is the selling point I should pass on. Enough of the sales pitch.
Happy New Year.
Like the OP I have been struggling with which shop to buy my built motor from...I don't wonder anymore, thanks for the dose of clarity
Slorice, your estimates are very close for the bore size difference and that's why it's not worth it to overbore it as far as possible right off.
I am going to start a new thread right now with some pictures of the internals out of my RS, do a quick search in Engine/turbo/drivetrain in a few minutes.
I am going to start a new thread right now with some pictures of the internals out of my RS, do a quick search in Engine/turbo/drivetrain in a few minutes.
Newbie
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10
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From: madison,wi
Br Stage 3 Engine
To put this the best way I can,
Ive been a customer of BR for like 5 years, from day 1 the guys there have treated me with great service,
I race a BR built 1g gsx built and tuned by BR its there stage 3 block and the stage 3 head that engine is ROCK SOILID in the summer time i drive the car to work and sometimes its driven to and from the track with no track day mods,
The BR stage 3 block is the best money can buy, think about how much exprience DAVID/BR have starting with 1g dsm and moving up to the evo,
They have set every record to date with that engine, Im not saying that AMS and others arnt good, Im just simply stating the facts/truth.
My buddy bought a 1g dsm about 2 months ago, the car was built by BR and had there stage 3 block/head on it, the car sat in a field for 2 1/2 years due to a divorce the wife took the car and it sat, in this field behind her house, we pulled that engine out and pulled it apart let me say that the car sat for 2 1/2 years in a field and previously when the car was driven it was beat on, the engine had roughly 30k-40k on it we pulled it first thing was the head looked AMAZING then we pulled the oil pan to see what the bottom end looked like exuse my french. ****ING AMAZING, there was no sign of bearing failure nothing the crank was GREAT the thing was just perfect,
I would NOT put any other companys engine in my car simply wont happen,
my point is go with BR, and you will be a happy guy, Ill put all my money on it
Ask yourself this question , have you ever heard of a BR engine failing?
answer .......NO
Im proud to be part of the BR team, chris.........
Ive been a customer of BR for like 5 years, from day 1 the guys there have treated me with great service,
I race a BR built 1g gsx built and tuned by BR its there stage 3 block and the stage 3 head that engine is ROCK SOILID in the summer time i drive the car to work and sometimes its driven to and from the track with no track day mods,
The BR stage 3 block is the best money can buy, think about how much exprience DAVID/BR have starting with 1g dsm and moving up to the evo,
They have set every record to date with that engine, Im not saying that AMS and others arnt good, Im just simply stating the facts/truth.
My buddy bought a 1g dsm about 2 months ago, the car was built by BR and had there stage 3 block/head on it, the car sat in a field for 2 1/2 years due to a divorce the wife took the car and it sat, in this field behind her house, we pulled that engine out and pulled it apart let me say that the car sat for 2 1/2 years in a field and previously when the car was driven it was beat on, the engine had roughly 30k-40k on it we pulled it first thing was the head looked AMAZING then we pulled the oil pan to see what the bottom end looked like exuse my french. ****ING AMAZING, there was no sign of bearing failure nothing the crank was GREAT the thing was just perfect,
I would NOT put any other companys engine in my car simply wont happen,
my point is go with BR, and you will be a happy guy, Ill put all my money on it
Ask yourself this question , have you ever heard of a BR engine failing?
answer .......NO
Im proud to be part of the BR team, chris.........
