Intake manifold testing.
I thought somewhere at sometime Dave Buschur said he tested intake manifolds and stated that nothing was to be gained. In fact, Dave said, IIRC, that he lost approximately 30hp when he did his "test." Dave has said numerous times that you really can't do better than the 65mm TB and ported OEM intake manifold "Because that's what I have on my x.xx second car." I would love to know about and/or see the thread where Dave had this new argument he alludes to with someone about intake manifolds.
FWIW, people on this board have already done testing like this (and I'm willing to bet they understand the math behind intake manifold design). Here's one example of such data:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...ntake+manifold
FWIW, people on this board have already done testing like this (and I'm willing to bet they understand the math behind intake manifold design). Here's one example of such data:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...ntake+manifold
People say **** all the time. Manifolds can lose power in certain areas and make power in other areas of the RPM band. You know that. Maybe that's what he meant before about it losing power.
As far as the ported stock manifold being the best choice- it IS the best choice for the money. $75 for 15WHP peak without losing power throughout the RPMs is awesome. The only other thing that will gain you that much power for the price is a tactrix cable. Plus everyone wants to sell his product. Just like the best catalytic converter is the one you sell.
Regardless of the reasoning behind it, he's doing an objective test that will benefit the community. Let the man post some dyno numbers then you can say whatever you want.
Awesome work Dave
I feel between the both of us we should come up with some very good data on the manifolds out there. I think im sitting on 12 manifolds right now.
Look forward to your results
I feel between the both of us we should come up with some very good data on the manifolds out there. I think im sitting on 12 manifolds right now. Look forward to your results
People say **** all the time. Manifolds can lose power in certain areas and make power in other areas of the RPM band. You know that. Maybe that's what he meant before about it losing power.
As far as the ported stock manifold being the best choice- it IS the best choice for the money. $75 for 15WHP peak without losing power throughout the RPMs is awesome. The only other thing that will gain you that much power for the price is a tactrix cable. Plus everyone wants to sell his product. Just like the best catalytic converter is the one you sell.
Regardless of the reasoning behind it, he's doing an objective test that will benefit the community. Let the man post some dyno numbers then you can say whatever you want.
As far as the ported stock manifold being the best choice- it IS the best choice for the money. $75 for 15WHP peak without losing power throughout the RPMs is awesome. The only other thing that will gain you that much power for the price is a tactrix cable. Plus everyone wants to sell his product. Just like the best catalytic converter is the one you sell.
Regardless of the reasoning behind it, he's doing an objective test that will benefit the community. Let the man post some dyno numbers then you can say whatever you want.
EvoPooPoo, there is always controversy over how testing is done. I will even go out on a limb here and say if ifarted and myself test the same intake manifolds we are going to get different results.
As for any negative comments that are in this thread now, I am ignoring them. I don't care to argue about this **** anymore.
The last testing I did I got some BS comments so I kept the information mostly to myself.......the haters are overtaking the good information. The more hate I get, the less I post, it's quite good for me and our direct customers, they will continue to go faster from all the testing
Have a nice day.
As for any negative comments that are in this thread now, I am ignoring them. I don't care to argue about this **** anymore.
The last testing I did I got some BS comments so I kept the information mostly to myself.......the haters are overtaking the good information. The more hate I get, the less I post, it's quite good for me and our direct customers, they will continue to go faster from all the testing
Have a nice day.
Depending on the results, will you make this manifold available Dave? Just wondering if this is just a more in-house project to see, or depending on how it works, something you will start to produce?
wshihdnevo, IF the results of this intake manifold were really good then yes, we would produce it. I highly doubt my "homebrew" intake is going to outperform AMS's or Hypertune's. We'll see though.
Also altavet, you said you wanted to see my old testing. I have been searching and found this from a post in 2005:
I am trying to find the actual post where I talked about it but as can be seen from above someone asked me about my results and I answered. This should be atleast proof it was discusses somewhere. Can you get off my butt now as being a "doubter"? I'd appreciate it.
For more reading on this discussion when it took place to here: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...112506&page=21
Also altavet, you said you wanted to see my old testing. I have been searching and found this from a post in 2005:
The clipping of the turbine was definetely marginal at best. Something that I am not going to push to anyone. The decreased backpressure in the turbine housing did allow more timing to be added but in the end the power was still down overall. I was surprised as that is not what I expected. There has been alot of testing done that I didn't see what I expected........which brings me to the intake manifold.
I don't honestly know what the deal is with the intake manifold testing. I put more work into trying to make the extrude honed intake and sheetmetal intake make more power than I did to any other part. Most, if not all, of the other parts tested were an instant realization of power or you could atleast look at the datalog and see if something needed to be changed to make the power. For example, put on a new part see the boost drop 3 pounds, simple, turn it back up and test again. See the AFR's go real lean, add some fuel and test again. With the intakes I couldn't really see what was going on. The boost did drop with them but no matter what I tried I could not get it back. Up until I added both intakes I was able to hold 19-20 psi at redline. After I have had less and less boost. There are no leaks, no blow by, no headgasket issues. I believe the airflow was increased with both intakes and the turbo has just become "smaller" and "smaller" as the efficiency of the engine has increased.
Right now I have the wastegate actuator arm as tight as it can go. With just a straight hose running from the intake to the actuator it will put out about 15 psi of boost. Like this the car STILL made just short of 350 whp at redline. This was amazing to me. I think I saved the dyno sheet, it would be an interesting one for you guys to look at. Remind me I will post it here. Amazing what a boost control does to low end power.
www.buschurracing.com
I don't honestly know what the deal is with the intake manifold testing. I put more work into trying to make the extrude honed intake and sheetmetal intake make more power than I did to any other part. Most, if not all, of the other parts tested were an instant realization of power or you could atleast look at the datalog and see if something needed to be changed to make the power. For example, put on a new part see the boost drop 3 pounds, simple, turn it back up and test again. See the AFR's go real lean, add some fuel and test again. With the intakes I couldn't really see what was going on. The boost did drop with them but no matter what I tried I could not get it back. Up until I added both intakes I was able to hold 19-20 psi at redline. After I have had less and less boost. There are no leaks, no blow by, no headgasket issues. I believe the airflow was increased with both intakes and the turbo has just become "smaller" and "smaller" as the efficiency of the engine has increased.
Right now I have the wastegate actuator arm as tight as it can go. With just a straight hose running from the intake to the actuator it will put out about 15 psi of boost. Like this the car STILL made just short of 350 whp at redline. This was amazing to me. I think I saved the dyno sheet, it would be an interesting one for you guys to look at. Remind me I will post it here. Amazing what a boost control does to low end power.
www.buschurracing.com
For more reading on this discussion when it took place to here: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...112506&page=21
Last edited by David Buschur; Feb 1, 2008 at 11:17 AM.
Dave,
Is there *any* way you would consider putting on a stock, unported intake manifold into the mix of this test? Possibly with and w/o a ported stock TB? I have seen numerous posts about the claimed gains for these, but I cannot for the life of me find any dyno graphs showing such. If not, I understand. But, since this test is for a magazine, perhaps more biz would be steered your way for the ported stockers, or your new frankenmanifold
Is there *any* way you would consider putting on a stock, unported intake manifold into the mix of this test? Possibly with and w/o a ported stock TB? I have seen numerous posts about the claimed gains for these, but I cannot for the life of me find any dyno graphs showing such. If not, I understand. But, since this test is for a magazine, perhaps more biz would be steered your way for the ported stockers, or your new frankenmanifold
EvoPooPoo, there is always controversy over how testing is done. I will even go out on a limb here and say if ifarted and myself test the same intake manifolds we are going to get different results.
As for any negative comments that are in this thread now, I am ignoring them. I don't care to argue about this **** anymore.
The last testing I did I got some BS comments so I kept the information mostly to myself.......the haters are overtaking the good information. The more hate I get, the less I post, it's quite good for me and our direct customers, they will continue to go faster from all the testing
Have a nice day.
As for any negative comments that are in this thread now, I am ignoring them. I don't care to argue about this **** anymore.
The last testing I did I got some BS comments so I kept the information mostly to myself.......the haters are overtaking the good information. The more hate I get, the less I post, it's quite good for me and our direct customers, they will continue to go faster from all the testing
Have a nice day.
I just meant controversy over consistency, however with you and ifarted doing similar testing... wouldn't be much of a controversy.
Your valued time to help out the community is much appreciated!
