I keep seeing posts where the same questions keep coming up. There seems to be misconceptions as to what 'makes power' and what's important/related to making power, so I decided to throw my 2cents out.

"Can I make...Has anybody made....Who's gone so,so fast.... "on a stock bottom end".

Stock bottom end only means that you haven't broken something yet. If you're going to make 400+whp Mustang, or 450+Dynojet, you might want to look at building the bottom end. Building the bottom end WILL NOT BY IT'S SELF make more power. It simply insures that your bottom end stays together.

A better question, or more appropriate concept for making power, should be ...
"Can I make....Has anybody made...Who's gone so, so fast.... "on a stock UPPER END (meaning head ports, valves)".

Building the upper end WILL make more power IN AND OF IT'S SELF. That's why the question would be more appropriate concerning a stock upper end, instead of stock bottom end. Again, stock bottom end only means that you haven't had the need to build it, or you're waiting for it to break. It doesn't mean that anyone is going to make more power, just because they built the 'bottom end'.

I know there are many experienced builders/tuners out there that know this, but this post is for the newbies that think that having a stock bottom end is more impressive than having a built bottom end. Just because a car goes xx.xx @ xxx.xx doesn't mean much.

In a nut shell, if you're going to race and try to make ton's of power, BUILD THE BOTTOM END. Why take the risk? Pistons, rods and labor are much cheaper BEFORE a breakage, than AFTER a breakage.

My 2 cents is spent.

 

Yep, doing it before you need a new block saves $1900.

 

Good post. That being said, what do you feel is the weakest part of the stock bottom end , besides the rod bolts?. Obviously, a full build is best, but just hypothetically speaking...

 

Probably the rods. My 2 cents were mainly for the 'mis-posts' concerning built bottom ends. Pride in having a stock bottom end making xxx whp and xxx wtq gets lost very quickly when the next post is "Who should I use to build my new engine?". I'm not knocking stockers in any way, shape or form. Not everyone needs nor can afford a built motor. It's just the posts that quote high hp numbers or low track numbers, then say "...and it's on a stock bottom end." The only thing learned from that statement is where the edge is before hearing 'boom'. Too many good pistons and kits out there to let this happen.

 

i think you were clear on what what your intentions were. i was just curious what tends to be the weakest link in people's experience, but i guess what fails first probably depends on the circumstances. thanks

 

my blown stocker cost me:

$1900 for the block
$400 for the oil cooler
$160 for the oil pan
plus some other stuff I can't remember, bottom line that money could have gone to better use

unfortunatelly most people just want to spend money on making power, not insurance and end up learning the hard way.

9sec9 great write up I hope this sinks in to at least a few people

 

Those threads let people know what the limits are on the stock bottom end. It's valuable information.

You have plenty of money to have 2 fully built cars - good for you, many people don't. I would upgrade my block in a second if i had money for it, until then i will be looking at those threads to determine what a stock block can handle.

 

9sec9

I think the pistons can be just as scary.

This is a piston out of my car, it is almost cracked the whole way through!! The plug was coated in oil like crazy.

I drove the car like this for 5,000mi. Who knows how long the person drove it like this before me. Does not look like any detonation to me.
I can not believe it stayed together.

Check it out...

 

this is also incorrect.

building a bottom end CAN make power. different piston dome shapes, ceramic piston coatings, different compression ratios, different stroke lengths, different cylinder bore, anti friction coatings, knife edged crank, lighter pistons, lighter rods, will add reduce parasitic losses/make for a more efficient burn/in effect make more power. if your going to the trouble to build a motor at least some of these steps will be taken, even if the gains are minimal.

 

Nah yo, the stock block can take it! LOL

 

KevinD, of course changing geometries can make power. I was obviously speaking of stock measurements. The post clearly says 'building the bottom end' not stroking and changing compressions. If you were able to stroke the motor with exactly the same quality of parts as the stockers, that would not lend any reliability to the engine. The 'built bottom end' refers to reliability, not reliability AND changing geometries. Most of the posters who refer to 'stock bottom end' are referring to stock parts. Using 'results' on stock parts isn't a reliable source due to the variances in the factory acceptable tolerances. Most 'built' bottom ends will be done with much higher quality pieces. The forum is full of blown motors because 'someone elses' didn't blow until it reached xxx whp, so mine won't either. I'm safe with our motors, so it serves me no purpose to make this thread. It's those who can least afford it that should take heed when putting too much power into a stock engine. It's not that it can't make the power, the question is how much should you gamble?

 

DS-03evo, HOLY MOLY!! Looks like the cylinder walls were holding it together. That's a first for me. How in the world did it stay together?

 

mplspilot, I don't disagree with you at all. That's actually exactly what I said a few posts earlier. I would just hate to see someone lose a motor because they took the stock parts too far simply because they've read a hundred times the 'stock bottom end' comment. It's just not the safest thing to brag about. Like ExViTermini said, it's not cheap to lose an engine.

 

i can see that this thread could easily have been prompted by the "500whp stock block club" thread, and it' is a good addendum to it. it is easy for someone to get the wrong idea when they see a post about a stock block making 500+whp, moreover multiple ones. what is often left unsaid is that many of the the stock blocks making that much power were often:
a) expected to blow, and the owner was just trying to see how far they could take it before it did
and/or
b) dynoed at this tune just to reach this number, then tuned down to a safer level

additionally, a stock block making 500whp consistently on a dyno is not the same as one doing so reliably for a long time.

threads like this are good for putting things back into perspective, especially when you have a hundred people on here who are all too eager to reach a certain power number.

 

+1