Universal Fit Cold Air Box - [BINARY]
Apr 7, 2008, 08:43 AM
#4
I did this on my Eclipse years ago. One note about running the dryer ducting down to the bumper and up to the filter. On rainy days, you will get a lot of water running up their and will wet most of the area under the box. It shouldn't matter too much as long as their isn't anything that can rust or be damaged from the water.
Maybe add in some design to the ducting where the heavier water can escape before coming up to the filter, such as some slits or something on the backside of the bend.
Also, have you thought about simply using the stock snorkel for feeding fresh air and leaving the box open to the bottom, so any need for additional fresh air can simply be pulled from under the car? You may have to leave a slight opening to the bottom if you don't have one.
The snorkel can also bring in some moisture, but the location of the dryer venting will bring in a lot more from the cars in front of you due to it being lower to the ground.
Eric
Maybe add in some design to the ducting where the heavier water can escape before coming up to the filter, such as some slits or something on the backside of the bend.
Also, have you thought about simply using the stock snorkel for feeding fresh air and leaving the box open to the bottom, so any need for additional fresh air can simply be pulled from under the car? You may have to leave a slight opening to the bottom if you don't have one.
The snorkel can also bring in some moisture, but the location of the dryer venting will bring in a lot more from the cars in front of you due to it being lower to the ground.
Eric
Apr 7, 2008, 09:18 AM
#5
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I did this on my Eclipse years ago. One note about running the dryer ducting down to the bumper and up to the filter. On rainy days, you will get a lot of water running up their and will wet most of the area under the box. It shouldn't matter too much as long as their isn't anything that can rust or be damaged from the water.
Maybe add in some design to the ducting where the heavier water can escape before coming up to the filter, such as some slits or something on the backside of the bend.
Also, have you thought about simply using the stock snorkel for feeding fresh air and leaving the box open to the bottom, so any need for additional fresh air can simply be pulled from under the car? You may have to leave a slight opening to the bottom if you don't have one.
The snorkel can also bring in some moisture, but the location of the dryer venting will bring in a lot more from the cars in front of you due to it being lower to the ground.
Eric
Maybe add in some design to the ducting where the heavier water can escape before coming up to the filter, such as some slits or something on the backside of the bend.
Also, have you thought about simply using the stock snorkel for feeding fresh air and leaving the box open to the bottom, so any need for additional fresh air can simply be pulled from under the car? You may have to leave a slight opening to the bottom if you don't have one.
The snorkel can also bring in some moisture, but the location of the dryer venting will bring in a lot more from the cars in front of you due to it being lower to the ground.
Eric
In terms of water, I've had a similar airbox on my car for over 2 years up in the rain of Seattle and haven't had a problem. But that will be addressed in the design as well.
Now I just need it to stop raining so I can start some testing. The data will be no good with water everywhere.
Apr 7, 2008, 09:21 AM
#6
the main problem with this desing is for those that utilize the stock front intercooler bottle. For alcohol, or other injection systems. As the bottle will be in the way of the air inlet hose and the top of the intake cover will cover the bottle top.
Just some insight. I would like this to work as it would be very beneficial with daily driving in my location.
Just some insight. I would like this to work as it would be very beneficial with daily driving in my location.
Apr 7, 2008, 09:42 AM
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the main problem with this desing is for those that utilize the stock front intercooler bottle. For alcohol, or other injection systems. As the bottle will be in the way of the air inlet hose and the top of the intake cover will cover the bottle top.
Just some insight. I would like this to work as it would be very beneficial with daily driving in my location.
Just some insight. I would like this to work as it would be very beneficial with daily driving in my location.
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Apr 9, 2008, 09:16 PM
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I was able to do a little bit of testing today with a break in the Seattle rain. I didn't get a chance to gather all the apples-to-apples numbers as I ran out of time - but I at least got a start.
A few interesting points of data as I won't go into all the details until I have a complete set of numbers and have verified them with multiple runs repeating the setup.
- At idle the airbox is able to keep the intake air 36 F degrees cooler than the engine compartment air directly outside the box ( I didn't cheat and put the probe next to the engine). This was with a time constant of about two mins.
- At idle the airbox was 34 F better than no airbox with respect to ambient, again with a 2 min time constant.
- At constant speed of 15 mph the airbox has a rise over ambient of 2 F, at 35 mph it's 1 F, and at 50 mph it's 0 F.
- At constant speed of 15 mph no airbox has a rise over ambient of 11 F, at 35 mph 7 F, and at 50 mph it's 4 F.
- A quick 2nd-3rd gear pull with the airbox had a rise of 2 F.
- A quick 2nd-3rd gear pull without the airbox had an average rise of 9F (spikes up to 20F).
I spent a fair amount of time on the constant speed numbers and only made a quick "rip" on a side street for the pulls. There's alot more to look at in that area. The reason I say that is because the pull without the box went like this...
1st gear putting along with a temp rise of about 2 degrees, go into 2nd gear and punch it and the temperature rise JUMPS up to 15 to 20, as I go through 2nd and into 3rd the temperature rise is moving around - all at pretty elevated levels. I didn't have time to make more pulls. So the engine under WOT pulls is creating ALOT of heat in the compartment and it increases the air temp almost instantly. I'll be doing some 1st-4th pulls to better understand the situation.
For reference, the same type of pull (quick 2nd- 3rd) with the airbox started with a rise of 1.5 and maintained that rock solid through the pull.
I've always known that the airbox was useful, but know I can start putting some hard data behind it. More to come.
A few interesting points of data as I won't go into all the details until I have a complete set of numbers and have verified them with multiple runs repeating the setup.
- At idle the airbox is able to keep the intake air 36 F degrees cooler than the engine compartment air directly outside the box ( I didn't cheat and put the probe next to the engine). This was with a time constant of about two mins.
- At idle the airbox was 34 F better than no airbox with respect to ambient, again with a 2 min time constant.
- At constant speed of 15 mph the airbox has a rise over ambient of 2 F, at 35 mph it's 1 F, and at 50 mph it's 0 F.
- At constant speed of 15 mph no airbox has a rise over ambient of 11 F, at 35 mph 7 F, and at 50 mph it's 4 F.
- A quick 2nd-3rd gear pull with the airbox had a rise of 2 F.
- A quick 2nd-3rd gear pull without the airbox had an average rise of 9F (spikes up to 20F).
I spent a fair amount of time on the constant speed numbers and only made a quick "rip" on a side street for the pulls. There's alot more to look at in that area. The reason I say that is because the pull without the box went like this...
1st gear putting along with a temp rise of about 2 degrees, go into 2nd gear and punch it and the temperature rise JUMPS up to 15 to 20, as I go through 2nd and into 3rd the temperature rise is moving around - all at pretty elevated levels. I didn't have time to make more pulls. So the engine under WOT pulls is creating ALOT of heat in the compartment and it increases the air temp almost instantly. I'll be doing some 1st-4th pulls to better understand the situation.
For reference, the same type of pull (quick 2nd- 3rd) with the airbox started with a rise of 1.5 and maintained that rock solid through the pull.
I've always known that the airbox was useful, but know I can start putting some hard data behind it. More to come.
Last edited by jid2; Apr 9, 2008 at 09:21 PM.
Apr 10, 2008, 07:50 AM
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Dammit!!! Where was this two months ago? I just paid AMS way too much $$ to build what almost looks exactly like this setup ... 
Looks good. Instead of the dryer hose, maybe the use of a heavily ridged hose (like landscaping drain hoses) will help in preventing water from working its way all they way up to the top.
l8r)
Looks good. Instead of the dryer hose, maybe the use of a heavily ridged hose (like landscaping drain hoses) will help in preventing water from working its way all they way up to the top.
l8r)
Apr 10, 2008, 08:01 AM
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Def looks interesting, I had always wondered why there wasn't more aftermarket attention devoted to getting colder air at the intake filter. I am liking the developement process and attention to detail and real testing. Looking like another part I will need to add to my list. Keep up the good work! 
Apr 10, 2008, 11:35 AM
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Two months ago it was sitting as sheet metal in my garage on the "to do list"
The dryer hose is just what I had left over from my old airbox, I am looking into other options. The one thing about dryer hose is that is can deform around things and is compliant - rigid hose is not.
One of the big challenges of making this truly universal is making it work with any brand of intake and intercooler piping, as well as the EVO 9 ACD parts. I'll be looking at different ways/source of getting the ambient air to the box, including the stock intake snorkel etc.
As an engineer I need to understand what's going on and have numbers and data to support everything - that's how I roll. I deal with military and medical companies everyday as I do product design/development, they demand data/proof for everything so it's just part of my process now. I'll be putting in the time to really understand what works and what doesn't. I just need it to not rain
The dryer hose is just what I had left over from my old airbox, I am looking into other options. The one thing about dryer hose is that is can deform around things and is compliant - rigid hose is not.
One of the big challenges of making this truly universal is making it work with any brand of intake and intercooler piping, as well as the EVO 9 ACD parts. I'll be looking at different ways/source of getting the ambient air to the box, including the stock intake snorkel etc.
As an engineer I need to understand what's going on and have numbers and data to support everything - that's how I roll. I deal with military and medical companies everyday as I do product design/development, they demand data/proof for everything so it's just part of my process now. I'll be putting in the time to really understand what works and what doesn't. I just need it to not rain
Apr 10, 2008, 01:24 PM
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that looks really cool. It reminds me the apexi induction box that I have. Us with the acd it is impossible to utilize an intake pipe like the one you have. Personally I ordered and waiting for an evodave ducted headlight which aims directly at the air filter. Along with the closed airbox it is going to be a killer combo!
