Official HTA EVOGREEN thread by FP
If i were a salesman, I would try to promote and sell what is "NOW" and promote "WHAT WILL BE" when the time is right, so as to not short-sell myself. In other words, don't be surprised if FP does not willingly disclose info on the FP RED (if it even exist). Im in the same boat, I would wait on the RED, if it does exist and meets the sleeper specifications that we all want. Lets all be patient.
Evolving Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 491
Likes: 1
From: Redmond Washington
Sure that would be good. If it has engine rpm and seconds on it, some of us could compare to what we got now just by logging a similar event on our own cars. Yeah there would be some differences - not too many people with FP4R EVO9 cams yet hey? Anyway it would be interesting to see.
Hey! - don't forget about the DSM version!!
Gary
Last edited by Talonboost; Apr 25, 2008 at 10:57 PM.
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: Netherlands
What about a ball bearing version/conversion on the new Evo Green HTA? (Or/and a ported shroud)
I made several attempts to get more info about the 9.0T housing.
I want to know what the penalty is for running this housing instead of the 10.5T.
I made several attempts to get more info about the 9.0T housing.
I want to know what the penalty is for running this housing instead of the 10.5T.
Last edited by De Blerende Bee; Apr 26, 2008 at 03:27 AM.
Bee: I am running the 9.0 turbine housing on my standard Green and so far I look at it as a poor man's ballbearing center section, although granted there are tradeoffs. Robert Young of Forced Performance ran this housing on his non-HTA Green equipped shop Evo and found that it gave much quicker spoolup than the 10.5 housing .
The two principal drawbacks to the 9.0 are the increased exhaust backressure and marginally higher EGT's. But, as per Robert this would only be a factor if you plan to run higher than 24-25 PSI of boost. On pumpgas and below 25 PSI he saw only an insignificant increase in backpressure according to his testing. On my own car there is no increase in knock levels with the 9.0 housing on the 91 octane street tune at 22#. However, we did record lower peak hp(-11 WHP) with the 9.0 hsg. according to DataLog Lab. This lower HP may be due to the fact that we haven't totally dialed in the fuel and timing tables yet. And the car is running a safe rich tune. But, if you want the highest HP numbers then you'll be wanting the 10.5 housing anyway.
Just how important is quicker turbo spoolup to you? With the new HTA upgrade to the Green, spoolup is greatly improved anyway, due to the redesign of the compressor blades and the lighter weight of the compressor wheel itself. Thus, the 9.0 housing might construed as overkill when used in conjunction with the HTA compressor wheel. Robert generalized in a post earlier in this same thread that the spoolup on an HTA Green configured with the 10.5 turbine housing was equal to spoolup on a non-HTA Green with the 9.0 housing.
If you want even quicker than usual spoolup from the HTA Green on European high test pump gas, then I'd consider ordering it from FP with the compromise 9.8 housing. It has been my experience that to really take advantage of the potentially improved spoolup from a 9.0 configured Green you'll need to run significantly higher levels of WG preload. This to counteract the greatly increased turbine inlet pressures with the smaller volume 9.0 as opposed to the looser 10.5 housing. Otherwise, I have found that with anything under 21 PSI of preload, this increased turbine inlet pressure lifts the turbine bypass(WG flapper) valve off its seat(at least with my rudimentary boost control setup), thus killing spoolup.
On my car, running at 22 PSI peak boost, to get this 9.0 housing to spool at its utmost quickest, I have to run 21# of preload, which is an awfully small margin before hitting my 22# peak. So, as a compromise I've had to turn preload back down to 18-19#. Eventually, I'll have to try the Forge piston-type IX WGA and maybe abandon my beloved DeJon MBC for an HKS-EVC VI.
As to the B.B. center section, to my knowledge no one here on EvoM has a B.B. Green. However, the British Evo peeps on LancerRegister seem to hold this rather expensive mod in high esteem.
The two principal drawbacks to the 9.0 are the increased exhaust backressure and marginally higher EGT's. But, as per Robert this would only be a factor if you plan to run higher than 24-25 PSI of boost. On pumpgas and below 25 PSI he saw only an insignificant increase in backpressure according to his testing. On my own car there is no increase in knock levels with the 9.0 housing on the 91 octane street tune at 22#. However, we did record lower peak hp(-11 WHP) with the 9.0 hsg. according to DataLog Lab. This lower HP may be due to the fact that we haven't totally dialed in the fuel and timing tables yet. And the car is running a safe rich tune. But, if you want the highest HP numbers then you'll be wanting the 10.5 housing anyway.
Just how important is quicker turbo spoolup to you? With the new HTA upgrade to the Green, spoolup is greatly improved anyway, due to the redesign of the compressor blades and the lighter weight of the compressor wheel itself. Thus, the 9.0 housing might construed as overkill when used in conjunction with the HTA compressor wheel. Robert generalized in a post earlier in this same thread that the spoolup on an HTA Green configured with the 10.5 turbine housing was equal to spoolup on a non-HTA Green with the 9.0 housing.
If you want even quicker than usual spoolup from the HTA Green on European high test pump gas, then I'd consider ordering it from FP with the compromise 9.8 housing. It has been my experience that to really take advantage of the potentially improved spoolup from a 9.0 configured Green you'll need to run significantly higher levels of WG preload. This to counteract the greatly increased turbine inlet pressures with the smaller volume 9.0 as opposed to the looser 10.5 housing. Otherwise, I have found that with anything under 21 PSI of preload, this increased turbine inlet pressure lifts the turbine bypass(WG flapper) valve off its seat(at least with my rudimentary boost control setup), thus killing spoolup.
On my car, running at 22 PSI peak boost, to get this 9.0 housing to spool at its utmost quickest, I have to run 21# of preload, which is an awfully small margin before hitting my 22# peak. So, as a compromise I've had to turn preload back down to 18-19#. Eventually, I'll have to try the Forge piston-type IX WGA and maybe abandon my beloved DeJon MBC for an HKS-EVC VI.
As to the B.B. center section, to my knowledge no one here on EvoM has a B.B. Green. However, the British Evo peeps on LancerRegister seem to hold this rather expensive mod in high esteem.
Last edited by sparky; Apr 26, 2008 at 07:42 AM.
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: Netherlands
Thanks Sparky! That is an answer I am looking for.
I use octane 100 at the moment and switching over to ethanol.
A low threshold is very important for me not to be confused with quick spoolup.(That offcourse is also important).
Goal is 450Bhp(not Whp) on a Dynojet with 365ft-lb TQ just over 3000rpm.
That way I almost will have a flat TQ-curve from 3000-7000rpm.
To flow 45lb/min of air with my engine I have to run a PR of 2.8
(It is a 2160cc 20Valve engine with VVT and 250/250cams, so TQ down low is not to bad at the moment).
I am really looking for low rpm spool-up like from a Evo9 TiAl turbo with the top-end of a 10.5 Evo Green. If it cost me about 25Hp then that is worth it all.
You say the 9T is like a poormans BB conversion....I think I will pick the HTA 10.5T with BB-conversion, maybe I have the best of both worlds?
If the threshold of a 10.5T HTA is the same as a non-HTA 9T I am sold on the 10.5T HTA. Hopefully we will see a back to back test with an Evo Green and HTA Evo Green to back that up.
Faster spool-up also often means more chance of surge, would a ported shroud be a good option or a waste of money?
What does HTA stands for anyway......something with titanium alloy? ;-)
PS Your comment on overkill on spool-up....it never can be to low in my opinion, thats where the electronic boost control comes into play.
My car begins to spool at 2000rpm, full boost at 2700rpm, 325ft-lb. Only it drops after 5K, and that is what I want to change.
I use octane 100 at the moment and switching over to ethanol.
A low threshold is very important for me not to be confused with quick spoolup.(That offcourse is also important).
Goal is 450Bhp(not Whp) on a Dynojet with 365ft-lb TQ just over 3000rpm.
That way I almost will have a flat TQ-curve from 3000-7000rpm.
To flow 45lb/min of air with my engine I have to run a PR of 2.8
(It is a 2160cc 20Valve engine with VVT and 250/250cams, so TQ down low is not to bad at the moment).
I am really looking for low rpm spool-up like from a Evo9 TiAl turbo with the top-end of a 10.5 Evo Green. If it cost me about 25Hp then that is worth it all.
You say the 9T is like a poormans BB conversion....I think I will pick the HTA 10.5T with BB-conversion, maybe I have the best of both worlds?
If the threshold of a 10.5T HTA is the same as a non-HTA 9T I am sold on the 10.5T HTA. Hopefully we will see a back to back test with an Evo Green and HTA Evo Green to back that up.
Faster spool-up also often means more chance of surge, would a ported shroud be a good option or a waste of money?
What does HTA stands for anyway......something with titanium alloy? ;-)
PS Your comment on overkill on spool-up....it never can be to low in my opinion, thats where the electronic boost control comes into play.
My car begins to spool at 2000rpm, full boost at 2700rpm, 325ft-lb. Only it drops after 5K, and that is what I want to change.
Evolving Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 491
Likes: 1
From: Redmond Washington
I don't know how applicable this is to you twin-scroll guys but it is interesting anyway. Take a look at the dyno comparison FP has for the Subaru FP Green turbo. This is a single scroll turbo. The comparison is between a 7cm and 8 cm turbine housing. The difference at around 4000 rpm is phenominal. There is an inverse difference of course, above about 4700 rpm, quite a bit but not as much as below 4700.
Point #1 - there is a big difference,
Point #2 - there is no way ball bearings could make this much difference.
http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...Code=WRX-Turbo
After you go to this link you have to pick the thumbnail of the dyno chart.
Gary
Point #1 - there is a big difference,
Point #2 - there is no way ball bearings could make this much difference.
http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...Code=WRX-Turbo
After you go to this link you have to pick the thumbnail of the dyno chart.
Gary
9sec9, it's really edit, well almost edit, hard to tell, the edit from the edit cold side is really faded. Sorry did I say edit, I mean cast, yea that's it. Sorry Robert
Last edited by Indy Evo; Apr 26, 2008 at 03:28 PM.
