Indy Intake V2 done and tested.
Indy, so is the porting done through CNC machining operations or by hand?
Awesome work on both DI and Indy/Wilson accounts. The DI manifold is a solid contender and frankly I think the two manifolds almost have two different markets.
The powerbands are almost identical between the two. In my mind, it would come down to "stock appearance" or "bling and cheaper."
Indy, so the CNC head...will it be matched to this manifold? How about being teamed up with some cams to complement everything?
Awesome work on both DI and Indy/Wilson accounts. The DI manifold is a solid contender and frankly I think the two manifolds almost have two different markets.
The powerbands are almost identical between the two. In my mind, it would come down to "stock appearance" or "bling and cheaper."
Indy, so the CNC head...will it be matched to this manifold? How about being teamed up with some cams to complement everything?
Is'nt the point of "bling" because its expensive? which in fact would make the Indy manifold have a higher bling factor.
what he meant is the v2 looks stock, wont catch many peoples eye that dont know what they are looking at.. the DI is sheetmetal and has the bling factor given its size and appearance.. follow
First off, great test guy's.
HOWEVER- i do have a few questions to either help point out the validity of the test or test inaccuracy.
Jim, you know what i do / used to do & that is to "pick the fly=$hit out of the pepper when it comes to race engines....dont take this the wrong way....basically, you made a kick A$$ unit from a oem mani...
You prooved that chicken salad can be made from chicken$hit!
let's move on:
can you please provide some data so i can & / or any other knucklehead who cares to crunch the numbers can do so.....
hey, for $1550- bucks, the math better / should add up to justify the cost.
1. MOST IMPORTANT IMO: was the boost measured in the same location? if not, than the test isnt as good as it could have been. this very point was discussed by me & other people before the super intake mani test, but was ignored.....here we go again.....
please dont say plenum pressure is plenum pressure & measurement location doesnt matter....trust me, i know a lot better than that...
there was a reason why all but 1 auto maker left an open wheel series.....there just needed to be better rule makers 
2. ambient conditions for both days. if you mention the time, & your exact loction, we should be able to retrieve 3rd party data, genereally a local airport.
3. ait temps, chances temps were measured in the same location, but please clarify.
running 1 day to the next doesnt mean squat when your looking @ this through a microscope as everyone is right now......
air density has everything to do with the power being made:
P/RT pressure(kpa/ideal gas constant = 0.287 * temp "K"
it really sucks to hear about a slipping clutch too....that in itself just f's the whole test.....
once again, nice work by everyone
lets see whaat we come up with
Here is the dyno sheet (the solid line is the DI intake, the dotted is the Indy):
I'm very happy with these results. I will be keeping the V2 on my car with our 65mm throttle body. I'd like to see what the car is going to run set up like this.
These runs were done at 34.8 psi of boost and the car was dyno'd in 3rd gear.
I'm very happy with these results. I will be keeping the V2 on my car with our 65mm throttle body. I'd like to see what the car is going to run set up like this.
These runs were done at 34.8 psi of boost and the car was dyno'd in 3rd gear.
Jim, you know what i do / used to do & that is to "pick the fly=$hit out of the pepper when it comes to race engines....dont take this the wrong way....basically, you made a kick A$$ unit from a oem mani...
You prooved that chicken salad can be made from chicken$hit!
let's move on:
can you please provide some data so i can & / or any other knucklehead who cares to crunch the numbers can do so.....
hey, for $1550- bucks, the math better / should add up to justify the cost.
1. MOST IMPORTANT IMO: was the boost measured in the same location? if not, than the test isnt as good as it could have been. this very point was discussed by me & other people before the super intake mani test, but was ignored.....here we go again.....
please dont say plenum pressure is plenum pressure & measurement location doesnt matter....trust me, i know a lot better than that...
there was a reason why all but 1 auto maker left an open wheel series.....there just needed to be better rule makers 2. ambient conditions for both days. if you mention the time, & your exact loction, we should be able to retrieve 3rd party data, genereally a local airport.
3. ait temps, chances temps were measured in the same location, but please clarify.
running 1 day to the next doesnt mean squat when your looking @ this through a microscope as everyone is right now......
air density has everything to do with the power being made:
P/RT pressure(kpa/ideal gas constant = 0.287 * temp "K"
it really sucks to hear about a slipping clutch too....that in itself just f's the whole test.....
once again, nice work by everyone
lets see whaat we come up with
Last edited by Aby@MIL.SPEC; Jun 19, 2008 at 12:52 AM.
David will be answering all questions as I will be unavailable till after the Daytona NASCAR race. David your X manifold is in process and will be done after next week. Yes, there is some left in the cast intake, but per David's request I'm moving on to finish other projects. The v0 street manifold will be 575.00 and will be available soon pending testing. AWD Motorsports will have the first five v0 in two to three weeks. Celica2Evo contact David an we will see what we can do. Please PM David for all info reguarding all three versions of intakes. I think we have covered all the bases here and now have something for everyone. Thanks, Indy
Last edited by Indy Evo; Jun 20, 2008 at 02:07 PM.
Indy, You are awesome! I will deffinately be getting ahold of David! I really hope for this to be a part of my cars build!
Once again, THANK YOU for everything you have done for us at the BR Camp, and all of the Evo community!
Once again, THANK YOU for everything you have done for us at the BR Camp, and all of the Evo community!
evodan2004, Wait till David tests it again, he says I will be happy once the clutch slip is gone. I think this will be it for awhile, I need to get going on my cnc cylinder head program and some other projects for David and 9sec9, and then there is a whole cabinet of parts for my car that need to be installed.
This process is all done by hand, very time consuming. My estimation is there has to be 20 hours of work, possibly more, in each intake manifold.
I agree, the DI intake manifold and the Indy V2 are very close in performance. The peak numbers being the closest. Down low the V2 is up as much as 25 ft lbs at 4800 rpm and 24 whp. That is the largest difference in the two. There are many people who do not care about those differences (personally I do as I have been chasing the best overall combination for 8 months). There are people who will want the look of a sheetmetal intake and will want to save some money for the HP differences up top. That's all fine, I have DI intakes instock and ready to ship. I plan to continue to carry the product as it has served us well and Tom has proven to be a stand up guy, I enjoy doing business with him.
As far as cams being matched up. I have done a LOT of cam testing over the last few months and even more before that. I also swapped in a different set yesterday when intake testing was done. I have no revealed the cam information so far and do not plan to honestly. When it is all done we will either have a cam that is better that what we recommend now or we won't. So far I have not found a cam that outperforms the BF272's enough to justify switching. I have had one cam in the car that made an additional 4 whp up top but had some fairly serious losses in the low/midrange.
I agree, the DI intake manifold and the Indy V2 are very close in performance. The peak numbers being the closest. Down low the V2 is up as much as 25 ft lbs at 4800 rpm and 24 whp. That is the largest difference in the two. There are many people who do not care about those differences (personally I do as I have been chasing the best overall combination for 8 months). There are people who will want the look of a sheetmetal intake and will want to save some money for the HP differences up top. That's all fine, I have DI intakes instock and ready to ship. I plan to continue to carry the product as it has served us well and Tom has proven to be a stand up guy, I enjoy doing business with him.
As far as cams being matched up. I have done a LOT of cam testing over the last few months and even more before that. I also swapped in a different set yesterday when intake testing was done. I have no revealed the cam information so far and do not plan to honestly. When it is all done we will either have a cam that is better that what we recommend now or we won't. So far I have not found a cam that outperforms the BF272's enough to justify switching. I have had one cam in the car that made an additional 4 whp up top but had some fairly serious losses in the low/midrange.
Last edited by David Buschur; Jun 19, 2008 at 08:09 AM.
Celica if everything goes smooth tonight with my car maybe I will see ya at the shop friday?
Tim I think Indy knows we would all drive out and help him if he needs it... I know the way
Man I need a 3in T-Body to keep up? Maybe DI race manifold with a 3iin?
Tim I think Indy knows we would all drive out and help him if he needs it... I know the way
Man I need a 3in T-Body to keep up? Maybe DI race manifold with a 3iin?
My answers to your questions are below marked with (**).
**Since you have your microscope out here is some information for you:
Driven Innovations Intake
634 whp/503 ft lbs
20 psi @5133 rpm
34.97 psi @6297 rpm
Starting AIT 77
Ending AIT 82.40
Average AFR 11.7-11.8
Indy V2 Intake
637 whp/497 ft lbs
20psi @4945 rpm
34.84 psi @6152
Starting AIT 68
Ending AIT 75
Average AFR 11.3-11.5
As you can see the boost was slightly lower and the AFR's were slightly richer on the V2 intake. The AIT's were about 8 degrees different.
I want to remind everyone of one thing. This is my car, I am an enthusiast more than anything else. Yes, I run a business, yes I need to sell part, yes I need to make money. Beyond all of that I am a true enthusiast. I want my car to be the absolutel best it can be, end of story. I don't feed any BS, it would be pointless, I if I was feeding you BS you could easily call me out on it because the part that didn't work well would not be on my car, I WANT THE F**KING BEST FOR MYSELF.
When the day is over I will run the part that makes my car the fast, that is what I am after more than making money.
My RS has gone 9.42 at 155 mph on a DOT tire, full factory interior, carpet, double DIN DVD player, 6 speakers, air bags etc. It is not a gutted hunk of **** race car, we drive it to and from the track. It is set up well enough to road race it, autocross it and drive it constantly. The car has the factory large Brembo calipers and factory sized Giro rotors on it. This is not a sole purpose drag car. Compare those times with the top EVO's out there and you will find that what this car does with a GT35r is just rediculous. It is quite obvious what my goal is and I will not sell that goal out for profit or anything else. The best parts make it on this car and into our parts catalog. The rest are for other people to sell.
It's common knowledge I don't like to be questioned, it makes me feel like I am being called a liar.
I hope you enjoy the information I have provided.
can you please provide some data so i can & / or any other knucklehead who cares to crunch the numbers can do so.....
**No matter how the test is performed someone is going to have something to say and pick it apart. This isn't a laboratory where every factor can be held exactly the same. I do enough dyno work that I feel confident when I say a part performs better/worse that it does actually perform better or worse.
1. MOST IMPORTANT IMO: was the boost measured in the same location? if not, than the test isnt as good as it could have been. this very point was discussed by me & other people before the super intake mani test, but was ignored.....here we go again.....
**The boost was measure in the plenum of both intakes. There is no way to measure in the exact same spot in the plenum given both plenums have a completely different shape. The boost on the V2 intake was measured at the factory map sensor location and there is a 21/64" hole drilled there. The boost on the DI intake was measured in the end plate where there is also a 21/64" hole drilled.
please dont say plenum pressure is plenum pressure & measurement location doesnt matter....trust me, i know a lot better than that... there was a reason why all but 1 auto maker left an open wheel series.....there just needed to be better rule makers
**I'm glad you are so knowledgable. When I performed the testing on all the intake manifolds last time the guys who cried about the placement of the MAP sensor were the ones who came up short. I even moved the MAP sensor around on some of them, I saw NO difference in boost pressure by doing this. I think if someone makes an intake manifold and truly believes the pressure needs to be measured in an exact location then they should take the time to put a port in that spot and mark it for MAP sensor. The boost controller was not touched during any of the testing.
2. ambient conditions for both days. if you mention the time, & your exact loction, we should be able to retrieve 3rd party data, genereally a local airport.
**Wakeman, Ohio 44889. The runs times/dates are on the dyno sheet. Have at it.
3. ait temps, chances temps were measured in the same location, but please clarify.
**The ait's are measured in the upper i/c pipe, the sensor doesn't get moved. I use the same two fans on the car at all times when I dyno.
running 1 day to the next doesnt mean squat when your looking @ this through a microscope as everyone is right now......
**Looking through a microscope is a waste of time, so is theory and formulas........just my redneck opinion. I am doing some testing of my own right now on some engine stuff I built. I am laughing my *** off at it actually because before I started the testing I read about it and did some math. None of it was even remotely close to what actually is taking place on the dyno.
lets see whaat we come up with
**No matter how the test is performed someone is going to have something to say and pick it apart. This isn't a laboratory where every factor can be held exactly the same. I do enough dyno work that I feel confident when I say a part performs better/worse that it does actually perform better or worse.
1. MOST IMPORTANT IMO: was the boost measured in the same location? if not, than the test isnt as good as it could have been. this very point was discussed by me & other people before the super intake mani test, but was ignored.....here we go again.....
**The boost was measure in the plenum of both intakes. There is no way to measure in the exact same spot in the plenum given both plenums have a completely different shape. The boost on the V2 intake was measured at the factory map sensor location and there is a 21/64" hole drilled there. The boost on the DI intake was measured in the end plate where there is also a 21/64" hole drilled.
please dont say plenum pressure is plenum pressure & measurement location doesnt matter....trust me, i know a lot better than that...
there was a reason why all but 1 auto maker left an open wheel series.....there just needed to be better rule makers **I'm glad you are so knowledgable. When I performed the testing on all the intake manifolds last time the guys who cried about the placement of the MAP sensor were the ones who came up short. I even moved the MAP sensor around on some of them, I saw NO difference in boost pressure by doing this. I think if someone makes an intake manifold and truly believes the pressure needs to be measured in an exact location then they should take the time to put a port in that spot and mark it for MAP sensor. The boost controller was not touched during any of the testing.
2. ambient conditions for both days. if you mention the time, & your exact loction, we should be able to retrieve 3rd party data, genereally a local airport.
**Wakeman, Ohio 44889. The runs times/dates are on the dyno sheet. Have at it.
3. ait temps, chances temps were measured in the same location, but please clarify.
**The ait's are measured in the upper i/c pipe, the sensor doesn't get moved. I use the same two fans on the car at all times when I dyno.
running 1 day to the next doesnt mean squat when your looking @ this through a microscope as everyone is right now......
**Looking through a microscope is a waste of time, so is theory and formulas........just my redneck opinion. I am doing some testing of my own right now on some engine stuff I built. I am laughing my *** off at it actually because before I started the testing I read about it and did some math. None of it was even remotely close to what actually is taking place on the dyno.
lets see whaat we come up with
Driven Innovations Intake
634 whp/503 ft lbs
20 psi @5133 rpm
34.97 psi @6297 rpm
Starting AIT 77
Ending AIT 82.40
Average AFR 11.7-11.8
Indy V2 Intake
637 whp/497 ft lbs
20psi @4945 rpm
34.84 psi @6152
Starting AIT 68
Ending AIT 75
Average AFR 11.3-11.5
As you can see the boost was slightly lower and the AFR's were slightly richer on the V2 intake. The AIT's were about 8 degrees different.
I want to remind everyone of one thing. This is my car, I am an enthusiast more than anything else. Yes, I run a business, yes I need to sell part, yes I need to make money. Beyond all of that I am a true enthusiast. I want my car to be the absolutel best it can be, end of story. I don't feed any BS, it would be pointless, I if I was feeding you BS you could easily call me out on it because the part that didn't work well would not be on my car, I WANT THE F**KING BEST FOR MYSELF.
When the day is over I will run the part that makes my car the fast, that is what I am after more than making money.
My RS has gone 9.42 at 155 mph on a DOT tire, full factory interior, carpet, double DIN DVD player, 6 speakers, air bags etc. It is not a gutted hunk of **** race car, we drive it to and from the track. It is set up well enough to road race it, autocross it and drive it constantly. The car has the factory large Brembo calipers and factory sized Giro rotors on it. This is not a sole purpose drag car. Compare those times with the top EVO's out there and you will find that what this car does with a GT35r is just rediculous. It is quite obvious what my goal is and I will not sell that goal out for profit or anything else. The best parts make it on this car and into our parts catalog. The rest are for other people to sell.
It's common knowledge I don't like to be questioned, it makes me feel like I am being called a liar.
I hope you enjoy the information I have provided.
Last edited by David Buschur; Jun 19, 2008 at 08:56 AM.
Awesome! Can't wait to see results of these, this might just be the most popular option, based on the price....what is the estimated power gains...somewhere inbetween the standard $75 port job(15whp) and the v2(45+whp)? Maybe 25whp?
