well I've been reading all about these products for months and now it has come time to choose one. Let me know what I should get and the pros and cons of each. Share your experiences
XEDE: seems perfect, but expensive
S-AFC: very common, cheaper, easy use (so i hear)
emanage: not to sure about this one, heard good and bad.
the big problem is that there aren't any 4 wheel dynos in my area, so I don't have that advantage. And I don't have a lot of experience tuning cars.
XEDE: seems perfect, but expensive
S-AFC: very common, cheaper, easy use (so i hear)
emanage: not to sure about this one, heard good and bad.
the big problem is that there aren't any 4 wheel dynos in my area, so I don't have that advantage. And I don't have a lot of experience tuning cars.
If you don't have any way to tune your vehicle I would look at the XEDE or a reflash from WORKS or RMR since those offer pre-tuned maps. You could also get a SAFC w/ Buschur's preset values as well, but I'm not sure if he uses the SAFC-II.
Mark
Mark
Evolved Member
There is a difference between the SAFC and an Excede or other piggy back/re-flash. SAFC changes fuel curve and ECU mods change ingition timing, so you can have the SAFC and a modified ECU at the same time.
Evolved Member
I got an APEXi S-AFCII from AMS in Arlington Heights Illinois and it came with a tuning sheet. Plus when I had questions...the guys there helped me out EVERY step of the way. I will continue to buy from them even though it is an hour and a half drive for me. Their customer service is AWESOME and their tech knowledge is awesome. Gregg and Kris in the front of the store and Martin the Head Tech are some great guys....give them a call...(847) 709-0530. Tell them Derek with the Yellow EVO VIII sent ya. Gregg knows me somewhat better then the others do....but any of them can help you. I was just in there yesterday.
Technically the reflash will change fuel and timing, SAFC, just fuel, and XEDE / eManage do fuel, timing, and boost.
Mark
Mark
Evolved Member
yeah, technically what Mark said....Just wanted to point out that the SAFC isn't comparable to a flash or piggyback.
Newbie
your less than 3 hours from pruven performance, not really that far if you value a custom tune on a dyno. I'm sure they can give you a great tune with SAFC or eMannage. Otherwise a Works reflash will give you good results if you don't want to tweak your ride yourself.
Evolved Member
Go to Pruven regardless of the tuning device you pick! Nothing beats a custom tune on the dyno ... and I'm sure Pruven can help you tune whichever u choose.
Evolved Member
Quote:
Originally posted by spit_heron
your less than 3 hours from pruven performance, not really that far if you value a custom tune on a dyno. I'm sure they can give you a great tune with SAFC or eMannage. Otherwise a Works reflash will give you good results if you don't want to tweak your ride yourself.
Do I know you??Originally posted by spit_heron
your less than 3 hours from pruven performance, not really that far if you value a custom tune on a dyno. I'm sure they can give you a great tune with SAFC or eMannage. Otherwise a Works reflash will give you good results if you don't want to tweak your ride yourself.
This is wrbluewagon from Nasioc.
Are you getting an EVO.
Eric
Evolving Member
Another option is to wait a few months until Turbo XS utec comes out or Buschur has their AEM system. Each will be more money but in the long run may perform better.
Evolved Member
Quote:
Originally posted by KK
Technically the reflash will change fuel and timing, SAFC, just fuel, and XEDE / eManage do fuel, timing, and boost.
Mark
The WORKS reflash also raises the rev limit, with a boost enhancememt forthcoming. Originally posted by KK
Technically the reflash will change fuel and timing, SAFC, just fuel, and XEDE / eManage do fuel, timing, and boost.
Mark
-- DavidV
Account Disabled
"yeah, technically what Mark said....Just wanted to point out that the SAFC isn't comparable to a flash or piggyback. "
Not necessarily true, the AFC does not advance timing, although the car will advance on its one in optimal conditions, until detonation is detected and then timing is yanked. If you advance timing, you can't run as much boost, and you are more prone to detonation. If you run race gas, then go nuts, but if you are stuck with 93 or lower, having a slightly lower timing curve with less fuel and more boost (SAFC and MBC set to 20PSI) you will make power.
The best way to make power on a turbo engine, is to add boost, but you need to be able to tune it, just adding boost without a tune is bad for the car. The SAFC will do fine and is good up to about 500HP only because the MAF just losses to much counts after that.
I would wager that the EMANAGE is the best as it has the most control, but the SAFC can be tuned when it gets holt/cold, and fine tune, it is fine.
BR makes 343 WHP with on on teh stoc turbo and FMIC, it can't be that bad.
Not necessarily true, the AFC does not advance timing, although the car will advance on its one in optimal conditions, until detonation is detected and then timing is yanked. If you advance timing, you can't run as much boost, and you are more prone to detonation. If you run race gas, then go nuts, but if you are stuck with 93 or lower, having a slightly lower timing curve with less fuel and more boost (SAFC and MBC set to 20PSI) you will make power.
The best way to make power on a turbo engine, is to add boost, but you need to be able to tune it, just adding boost without a tune is bad for the car. The SAFC will do fine and is good up to about 500HP only because the MAF just losses to much counts after that.
I would wager that the EMANAGE is the best as it has the most control, but the SAFC can be tuned when it gets holt/cold, and fine tune, it is fine.
BR makes 343 WHP with on on teh stoc turbo and FMIC, it can't be that bad.
Evolved Member
Quote:
Originally posted by umiami80
"yeah, technically what Mark said....Just wanted to point out that the SAFC isn't comparable to a flash or piggyback. "
Not necessarily true, the AFC does not advance timing, although the car will advance on its one in optimal conditions, until detonation is detected and then timing is yanked. If you advance timing, you can't run as much boost, and you are more prone to detonation. If you run race gas, then go nuts, but if you are stuck with 93 or lower, having a slightly lower timing curve with less fuel and more boost (SAFC and MBC set to 20PSI) you will make power.
The best way to make power on a turbo engine, is to add boost, but you need to be able to tune it, just adding boost without a tune is bad for the car. The SAFC will do fine and is good up to about 500HP only because the MAF just losses to much counts after that.
I would wager that the EMANAGE is the best as it has the most control, but the SAFC can be tuned when it gets holt/cold, and fine tune, it is fine.
BR makes 343 WHP with on on teh stoc turbo and FMIC, it can't be that bad.
Good point umiami80!.. that's one thing that I was concerned about ..... if timing is advanced (taken out or more put in) with an Xede or E-Manage, can the ECU still yank timing accordingly if det occurs? I'd assume so ..... Originally posted by umiami80
"yeah, technically what Mark said....Just wanted to point out that the SAFC isn't comparable to a flash or piggyback. "
Not necessarily true, the AFC does not advance timing, although the car will advance on its one in optimal conditions, until detonation is detected and then timing is yanked. If you advance timing, you can't run as much boost, and you are more prone to detonation. If you run race gas, then go nuts, but if you are stuck with 93 or lower, having a slightly lower timing curve with less fuel and more boost (SAFC and MBC set to 20PSI) you will make power.
The best way to make power on a turbo engine, is to add boost, but you need to be able to tune it, just adding boost without a tune is bad for the car. The SAFC will do fine and is good up to about 500HP only because the MAF just losses to much counts after that.
I would wager that the EMANAGE is the best as it has the most control, but the SAFC can be tuned when it gets holt/cold, and fine tune, it is fine.
BR makes 343 WHP with on on teh stoc turbo and FMIC, it can't be that bad.
In my set-up, I enjoy having the AFC for now since it is very easy to adjust whenever I need to (without a lap top or performing root canals, etc
), and I also enjoy messing around with boost on my EVC. I actually have a great time tuning .... or should I say playin' around .... such as loweing boost/leaning fuel vs. raising boost/slightly richening fuel (of course still leaner than stock) to see which makes the MOST power. And u are definitely right on here umiami80 ..... raising boost with the right A/F tune makes a monster .... as does running between 19-20 psi and tapering off to 18 psi, while running a nice 11.7 or 11.8:1 A/F. Surprisingly enough ..... my car seems to pull harder with the lean map/less boost combo opposed to the other way around. Don't get me wrong though .... high boost and lean fuel map is the fastest but I'm not wanting to blow it up today TUVM.
I plan to go back to the dyno soon, but a little over a week ago I put down 280 at wheel with the mods listed in my sig and a VERY conservative AFC tune. I'd say that I'm running at least 290 whp with the settings I'm running now, well ... maybe 285-288 or so since I dropped boost down approx .5 psi.So ............. to conclude this looooooooooong reply to umiami80's post .... I fully agree that the S-AFC is a an excellent tuning device and it will make power! Just need the right tune and supporting mods to maximize its potential and bring the TQ curve up a bit to compensate for no ability to advance timing (and raise TQ manually). Sure, advanced timing = more TQ, but the right combination of mods and a good tune (be sure to run the richest at peak TQ) should 'help' bring it up as well.
Evolved Member
Quote:
Originally posted by eldanoloco
How hard is the SAFC to actually tune?
Leaning how to use a S-AFC is literally child's play .... I learned the entire thing in literally a couple hours. Originally posted by eldanoloco
How hard is the SAFC to actually tune?
However, in reference to your question ...... you are supposed to tune the car, and not the S-AFC.
Maybe our question was worded incrrectly? Are u asking how hard it is to tune and evo "with" a S-AFC?If so, then let me just say that it is very simple, but you need to tune it on a dyno with wideband o2 (tailpipe sniffer) to get your custom A/F map ..... and THEN you can play around with the settings ... as lonmg as you use your base map as a reference, and have a basic understanding of tuning concepts, as well as how the evo repsonds to tuning.
Just pm me if you decide to get one, and I'll give you some base maps to play with and walk u through set-up.
