OK, need some help for a change.
OK, need some help for a change.
Alright, I need some help, now let me see who can provide it
Here's what I need to know. I need to know the operating range in ohms and the cooresponding tempurature in F or C for the factory oil temp sending unit for the factory/aftermarket oil temp gauge.
I bought a new oil temp gauge from Mitsubishi, this is the one they installed in the EVO's in the three gauge cluster.
Mitsubishi doesn't have an answer and there is no paperwork.
If I can get the scaling and ohms I plan to run the sending unit into the EMS so I can log oil temps.
Thanks for any help.
Here's what I need to know. I need to know the operating range in ohms and the cooresponding tempurature in F or C for the factory oil temp sending unit for the factory/aftermarket oil temp gauge.
I bought a new oil temp gauge from Mitsubishi, this is the one they installed in the EVO's in the three gauge cluster.
Mitsubishi doesn't have an answer and there is no paperwork.
If I can get the scaling and ohms I plan to run the sending unit into the EMS so I can log oil temps.
Thanks for any help.
While we are at it. I have another question.
For those of you with the factory gauges, how about chiming in and letting me know what the typical oil temps you see are, if you can let me know the coolant temp and approximate ambient air temps at the time you read your oil temp gauge. I know a lot of you have EvoScan to find out coolant temps.
The reason for all of this is I have gotten curious how much oil temp we are seeing without oil coolers and on some of the race cars with hard blocked engines.
The initial testing I did today was pretty amazing, I just need to get it all put together more accurately.
Where's an engineer when I need one?!
For those of you with the factory gauges, how about chiming in and letting me know what the typical oil temps you see are, if you can let me know the coolant temp and approximate ambient air temps at the time you read your oil temp gauge. I know a lot of you have EvoScan to find out coolant temps.
The reason for all of this is I have gotten curious how much oil temp we are seeing without oil coolers and on some of the race cars with hard blocked engines.
The initial testing I did today was pretty amazing, I just need to get it all put together more accurately.
Where's an engineer when I need one?!
Hey David,
You can buy a GM factory air temp sensor (closed type instead of open element) and use the same "math" that we use for the air intake temps. Usually these are also used for water temp.
If i remember correctly, it is for an "intake manifold mounted" type sensor found on 91 pontac grand ams/ 90-91 camaro's and such.
Local autoparts guy will have a book with tons of sensor "types". The gm replacements are about $17.
Hope this helps.
You can buy a GM factory air temp sensor (closed type instead of open element) and use the same "math" that we use for the air intake temps. Usually these are also used for water temp.
If i remember correctly, it is for an "intake manifold mounted" type sensor found on 91 pontac grand ams/ 90-91 camaro's and such.
Local autoparts guy will have a book with tons of sensor "types". The gm replacements are about $17.
Hope this helps.
Avg oil temps are 75degrees celcius on an avg day with ambient temps of ~80F and relatively low humidity, (below 40%) NORMAL DRIVING coolant temps do not pass 210F. Sitting in Chicago city traffic on a HOT day, I have yet to see temps pass the 90degree celcius mark, although coolant has seen 230F in those "extreme" situations. Stock oil cooler/radiator/tstat/etc.
Last edited by inco9nito99; Aug 6, 2008 at 08:30 PM.
Here's a quote from my search....
"It goes on a plethera of Chev vehicles from '85 - '92, like the Camaro 90-92, Cadillac Deville 92-93... honestly about half of everything that GM made then, all of them NA cars.
If you get it from PART SOURCE, you will not find it as an IAT sensor, but they call it a "charge air sensor, manifold type with pigtail" for $45 Can. However, it is not a cage type, but a solid brass type which the tip looks identical to Carl C's solid brass tip Toyota dual coolant/air temp sensor.
The company that makes Partsource IAT sensors also supplies CANADIAN TIRE, and there it is also found in the same manner.
UAP NAPA auto parts also sells their own brand, which interestingly enough has the same part # as the Echlin make, at T5100. Now, it lists the identical part as both a coolant sensor and an air temp sensor, and they refer to the sensor as a Manifold Air Temp sensor. Although I did not physically see this sensor, I am willing to bet that it also is a solid brass tip since they are using it for dual purpose."
"Part numbers for this part are:
GM # 25036751 ($35 list $17 @ GMPartsDirect.com)
Echlin ECHT55100
Wells 54107
Borg Warner WT382
These are the threaded sensors. Unthreaded plastic part is GM #12160244
Wiring Pigtail from GM #12102620 ($20+ from GM abut half from GMPartsDirect.com)"
I followed these instructions when my AIT sensor died on me. I unded up with the wells piece for $17 from Autozone.
The manifold temp sensor is the "closed type" and what you are looking for.
Again, the same AEM "math" as the AIT sensor.
"It goes on a plethera of Chev vehicles from '85 - '92, like the Camaro 90-92, Cadillac Deville 92-93... honestly about half of everything that GM made then, all of them NA cars.
If you get it from PART SOURCE, you will not find it as an IAT sensor, but they call it a "charge air sensor, manifold type with pigtail" for $45 Can. However, it is not a cage type, but a solid brass type which the tip looks identical to Carl C's solid brass tip Toyota dual coolant/air temp sensor.
The company that makes Partsource IAT sensors also supplies CANADIAN TIRE, and there it is also found in the same manner.
UAP NAPA auto parts also sells their own brand, which interestingly enough has the same part # as the Echlin make, at T5100. Now, it lists the identical part as both a coolant sensor and an air temp sensor, and they refer to the sensor as a Manifold Air Temp sensor. Although I did not physically see this sensor, I am willing to bet that it also is a solid brass tip since they are using it for dual purpose."
"Part numbers for this part are:
GM # 25036751 ($35 list $17 @ GMPartsDirect.com)
Echlin ECHT55100
Wells 54107
Borg Warner WT382
These are the threaded sensors. Unthreaded plastic part is GM #12160244
Wiring Pigtail from GM #12102620 ($20+ from GM abut half from GMPartsDirect.com)"
I followed these instructions when my AIT sensor died on me. I unded up with the wells piece for $17 from Autozone.
The manifold temp sensor is the "closed type" and what you are looking for.
Again, the same AEM "math" as the AIT sensor.
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (50)
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,675
Likes: 132
From: Tri-Cities, WA // Portland, OR
I don't have any data on resistance vs temp, but I can say that my fully warmed up engine oil temps range from around 60C in the winter (32F outside, 180F coolant temp) to maybe 85C in the summer (100F outside, 180F coolant temp). The factory location for the oil temp sensor is a hack though. I'm sure you know that there is no intimate contact between the sensor and the oil pan. If the sensor were sitting in oil, the winter time temps would be much closer to the summer time oil temps.
Why not calibrate the sensor yourself? Should be pretty easy to at least get a calibration up to 212F. Tape it near the bulb of a good thermometer that reads up to 212F (or better), and set it in a pan of water on a stove. I'd elevate it a bit off the bottom of the pan.
Why not calibrate the sensor yourself? Should be pretty easy to at least get a calibration up to 212F. Tape it near the bulb of a good thermometer that reads up to 212F (or better), and set it in a pan of water on a stove. I'd elevate it a bit off the bottom of the pan.
I don't have any data on resistance vs temp, but I can say that my fully warmed up engine oil temps range from around 60C in the winter (32F outside, 180F coolant temp) to maybe 85C in the summer (100F outside, 180F coolant temp). The factory location for the oil temp sensor is a hack though. I'm sure you know that there is no intimate contact between the sensor and the oil pan. If the sensor were sitting in oil, the winter time temps would be much closer to the summer time oil temps.
Why not calibrate the sensor yourself? Should be pretty easy to at least get a calibration up to 212F. Tape it near the bulb of a good thermometer that reads up to 212F (or better), and set it in a pan of water on a stove. I'd elevate it a bit off the bottom of the pan.
Why not calibrate the sensor yourself? Should be pretty easy to at least get a calibration up to 212F. Tape it near the bulb of a good thermometer that reads up to 212F (or better), and set it in a pan of water on a stove. I'd elevate it a bit off the bottom of the pan.
+1
Trending Topics
4kinboost, I am not talking about the air intake temp sensor, it would not work for what I am trying to do. I am talking about the oil temp sensor that is used with the Mitsubishi gauge package.
Mrfred, the temp sensor for the Mitsubishi oil temp sensor does come in contact with the oil. It is the actual drain plug on the oil pan so it is covered with the engine oil. I think you are thinking of the sensor for the idiot light that is located in the back of the block.
I'm surprised that will all the guys on this site always wanting to add something that this time when I need it, I can't get squat.
I guess I will need to find a way to do this myself. mrfred you are correct, I can put some water in a pan, heat it slowly, check it with a thermostat and just read the resistance on the sensor as the heat climbs. Pretty simple actually, I didn't think of doing that.
It is surprising to me the oil temps that two of you reported. My car with no oil cooler appears to be running only about 5C more than what you guys reported.
Mrfred, the temp sensor for the Mitsubishi oil temp sensor does come in contact with the oil. It is the actual drain plug on the oil pan so it is covered with the engine oil. I think you are thinking of the sensor for the idiot light that is located in the back of the block.
I'm surprised that will all the guys on this site always wanting to add something that this time when I need it, I can't get squat.
I guess I will need to find a way to do this myself. mrfred you are correct, I can put some water in a pan, heat it slowly, check it with a thermostat and just read the resistance on the sensor as the heat climbs. Pretty simple actually, I didn't think of doing that.
It is surprising to me the oil temps that two of you reported. My car with no oil cooler appears to be running only about 5C more than what you guys reported.
Evolved Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,788
Likes: 1
Ambient temp here is about 85F.
My oil temp is between 80 and 90c. I've been wondering if I am getting some hear soak on the sensor though. I have the sensor on the transmission side of the cylinder head.
Oil pressure I have at the oil filter housing. Around 90-100 psi at max RPM.
Sorry I can't be more help. I run both sensors straight to my AIM Dash.
My oil temp is between 80 and 90c. I've been wondering if I am getting some hear soak on the sensor though. I have the sensor on the transmission side of the cylinder head.
Oil pressure I have at the oil filter housing. Around 90-100 psi at max RPM.
Sorry I can't be more help. I run both sensors straight to my AIM Dash.
I would probably do the same thing you would do with the pot of hot water. The sensor should be linear, so you plot a few data points (4 or 5) and you can plot the resistance vs. temperature line.
But the next question I have is do you do it base on voltage or resistance? I know the TXS MAP sensor I had connected to the UTEC on my STI was a 0-5V output going to the UTEC. hmm.
Next question I have is can the AEM even take an input that is resistance based or does it only have voltage inputs?
But the next question I have is do you do it base on voltage or resistance? I know the TXS MAP sensor I had connected to the UTEC on my STI was a 0-5V output going to the UTEC. hmm.
Next question I have is can the AEM even take an input that is resistance based or does it only have voltage inputs?
OK, just browsed around the AEM's Setup->Sensors section and all the temperature sensors (IAT, EGT, coolant) are all based on a Temperature vs. Voltage scale.
Hmm.....now I'm about to go out to my garage and take a look at the temperature guage/sensor I pulled out of the Evo.
Hmm.....now I'm about to go out to my garage and take a look at the temperature guage/sensor I pulled out of the Evo.
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (50)
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,675
Likes: 132
From: Tri-Cities, WA // Portland, OR
...
Mrfred, the temp sensor for the Mitsubishi oil temp sensor does come in contact with the oil. It is the actual drain plug on the oil pan so it is covered with the engine oil. I think you are thinking of the sensor for the idiot light that is located in the back of the block.
...
Mrfred, the temp sensor for the Mitsubishi oil temp sensor does come in contact with the oil. It is the actual drain plug on the oil pan so it is covered with the engine oil. I think you are thinking of the sensor for the idiot light that is located in the back of the block.
...
I would probably do the same thing you would do with the pot of hot water. The sensor should be linear, so you plot a few data points (4 or 5) and you can plot the resistance vs. temperature line.
But the next question I have is do you do it base on voltage or resistance?
...
But the next question I have is do you do it base on voltage or resistance?
...
The calibration curve will be resistance vs temp. A little series circuit is setup in the ECU where the sensor acts as the second resistor and the ECU reads the voltage across it. The AEM will want either resistance or voltage vs temp. If the AEM wants voltage, the AEM manual should provide the resistance of the other resistor and the voltage applied to the circuit to convert resistance to voltage.
Dave,
As mrfred stated, the sensor is most likely a thermistor, which does not have a linear relationship of resistance with temperature.
I don't have the AEM software in front of me, but what parameters does it want in order to setup the sensor? Does it want resistance vs temperature or voltage vs temperature? Also, as mrfred mentioned, the AEM software should tell you what the load resistor is for the connection where the thermistor is being connected.
LogWorks has a nice little tool to make a chart of voltage vs temp once you have only 3 temps measured and know the load resistor being used.
If you give me the following information, I can give you the calibration (if the AEM software doesn't already have an app that does it):
1. Load resistor
2. Resistance readings at three different temps, at least 25c apart:
- Measure the sensor in ice water: should be around 0C
- Measure the sensor at room temp above 77F (25C): should be easy on a hot day or in the shop
- Measure the sensor in a pot of boling water: should be around 100C
Give me those 4 pieces of data and I can put it into the ThermistorCalc from LogWorks and I can attach the calibration here. Or, if you want to do it yourself, just download LogWorks from Innovate. The ThermistorCalc is in the Tools folder after the install.
Eric
As mrfred stated, the sensor is most likely a thermistor, which does not have a linear relationship of resistance with temperature.
I don't have the AEM software in front of me, but what parameters does it want in order to setup the sensor? Does it want resistance vs temperature or voltage vs temperature? Also, as mrfred mentioned, the AEM software should tell you what the load resistor is for the connection where the thermistor is being connected.
LogWorks has a nice little tool to make a chart of voltage vs temp once you have only 3 temps measured and know the load resistor being used.
If you give me the following information, I can give you the calibration (if the AEM software doesn't already have an app that does it):
1. Load resistor
2. Resistance readings at three different temps, at least 25c apart:
- Measure the sensor in ice water: should be around 0C
- Measure the sensor at room temp above 77F (25C): should be easy on a hot day or in the shop
- Measure the sensor in a pot of boling water: should be around 100C
Give me those 4 pieces of data and I can put it into the ThermistorCalc from LogWorks and I can attach the calibration here. Or, if you want to do it yourself, just download LogWorks from Innovate. The ThermistorCalc is in the Tools folder after the install.
Eric
Last edited by l2r99gst; Aug 8, 2008 at 07:02 AM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
FQ640
Evo How Tos / Installations
3
Nov 21, 2011 01:49 PM
