Twinscroll + HTA
Twin scroll is better than single scroll...
Think about it, if you have 4 cylinders getting rid of exhaust and two different times would the turbo get more or less energy if it didn't have to worry about the pulse of 2 cylinders vs 4 at the merge, which one would make better use of the exhaust?
Is the EVO 8, 9, X twin scroll because it works worse? ...NO
Scorke
Scorke
Think about it, if you have 4 cylinders getting rid of exhaust and two different times would the turbo get more or less energy if it didn't have to worry about the pulse of 2 cylinders vs 4 at the merge, which one would make better use of the exhaust?
Is the EVO 8, 9, X twin scroll because it works worse? ...NO
Scorke
Scorke
i dont think anyone has done HTA and twin scroll together. i think it would be the ultimate setup. all results of full race twin scroll set ups make great power with unheard up spool characteristics. and all results of the HTA wheel conversion also has amazing results.
Right now I'm at the end of a 2.1ltr, T4 twinscoll T4Z 88HTA. So hopefully in 2 weeks, I'll have an anwser. I'm just waiting on my header to get here. I'm going with two 44mm wastegates(overkill maybe) and 1200cc injs. Twin pumps as well. It should be fun.
Full race also takes alot of advantage from the shorter distance due to the shorter distance IC piping and verticle FMIC. I wonder how much of a facter that is? Twin scroll too. I'm a believer.
i dont think anyone has done HTA and twin scroll together. i think it would be the ultimate setup. all results of full race twin scroll set ups make great power with unheard up spool characteristics. and all results of the HTA wheel conversion also has amazing results.
Last edited by LT1runner; Aug 27, 2008 at 09:02 PM.
i do not recommend twinscroll + hta. Twinscroll systems require high turbine efficiency to work optimally. In my opinion (which will obviously differ with many other people) - if you want to make more power than a particular twinscroll turbo generates, you should run the next size larger twinscroll turbo - not try to stuff a bigger compressor wheel in there.
Our Twinscroll 40R kit will outspool almost any open scroll 35R config and make more power. Here is a video of the Twinscroll 40R kit hitting 31 psi by 4700rpm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzM7HIFQtkM
Our Twinscroll 40R kit will outspool almost any open scroll 35R config and make more power. Here is a video of the Twinscroll 40R kit hitting 31 psi by 4700rpm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzM7HIFQtkM
Last edited by Geoff Raicer; Aug 28, 2008 at 10:33 AM.
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Posts: 2,788
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Hate to throw a wrench in peoples hopes but I think I should post this here as it just doesn't appear to make sense letting people spend this extra cash for a product which _appears_ to not work as advertised.
Here is a quote from Simon Norris, one of the top Evo guys in the world. If you don't know him you don't know Evo's. This is what he said, among other things, in a thread recently on the MLR. He is speaking about Full-Race only here:
And if you have read posts from David Buschur, he has not been impressed by the kits as well.
Also Geoff has said in a post on the MLR that the vertical flow intercooler compromises intake air temps to improve response. I don't think anyone wants to make this compromise.
Here is the full thread which brings to light many issues.
http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=217286
I bring all this up because I think it is unfair for Full-Race to continue to sell a product which has not been tested against other products in their space.
Here is a quote from Simon Norris, one of the top Evo guys in the world. If you don't know him you don't know Evo's. This is what he said, among other things, in a thread recently on the MLR. He is speaking about Full-Race only here:
Varuious reasons but as per below are the main points;
1) The twin scroll doesn't actually reduce the lag its the fact they run tiny turbine housings that does this.
2) Due to the above they make very little power and have poor high rpm power production.
3) Very expensive for something that doesn't work as it should.
4) Very little/zero testing before releasing prodcuts that may or may not work. However it is always claimed they are the best.
5) Ludicrous cost when there are no benefits.
6) Difficult implemantation into the engine bay for a road car.
Most of the above is echoed by many many professional people I just happen to be prepared to say something about it. The above is nothing to do with the fact we sell our own turbo kits. infact if no one ever buys another one of our turbo kits again then thats fine. We test them properley and although we are not infallible 100% of the time, generally speaking they perform as expected and beyond expectation.
Cheers
Si
1) The twin scroll doesn't actually reduce the lag its the fact they run tiny turbine housings that does this.
2) Due to the above they make very little power and have poor high rpm power production.
3) Very expensive for something that doesn't work as it should.
4) Very little/zero testing before releasing prodcuts that may or may not work. However it is always claimed they are the best.
5) Ludicrous cost when there are no benefits.
6) Difficult implemantation into the engine bay for a road car.
Most of the above is echoed by many many professional people I just happen to be prepared to say something about it. The above is nothing to do with the fact we sell our own turbo kits. infact if no one ever buys another one of our turbo kits again then thats fine. We test them properley and although we are not infallible 100% of the time, generally speaking they perform as expected and beyond expectation.
Cheers
Si
Also Geoff has said in a post on the MLR that the vertical flow intercooler compromises intake air temps to improve response. I don't think anyone wants to make this compromise.
Here is the full thread which brings to light many issues.
http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=217286
I bring all this up because I think it is unfair for Full-Race to continue to sell a product which has not been tested against other products in their space.
Step outside the EVO world crcain.
Full-Race manifolds are VERY well proven in professional and sportsman racing classes.
It's also complete crap that they run tiny housings. Most of the SFWD GT42R guys are running 1.28 A/R (or larger) turbine housings on 2.0L motors getting ridiculously fast spool and making enough power to run 160+ mph traps in 'street cars.' Doesn't seem to be hurting them too much on the top end as they are making 900+ WHP on 70mm turbos.
Full-Race manifolds are VERY well proven in professional and sportsman racing classes.
It's also complete crap that they run tiny housings. Most of the SFWD GT42R guys are running 1.28 A/R (or larger) turbine housings on 2.0L motors getting ridiculously fast spool and making enough power to run 160+ mph traps in 'street cars.' Doesn't seem to be hurting them too much on the top end as they are making 900+ WHP on 70mm turbos.
It's not the liability of the mfg to test things against competitors, its ours.
Scorke
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Joined: Oct 2002
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I never said Full-Race products don't work. And if you read the thread, Norris was speaking about the Full-Race 30, 35, and 40 variants. Also, I have no opinion of their products, I am only posting Buschur, Norris, and Geof at FR opinions. Take it how you will.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 305
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From: England
Hate to throw a wrench in peoples hopes but I think I should post this here as it just doesn't appear to make sense letting people spend this extra cash for a product which _appears_ to not work as advertised.
Here is a quote from Simon Norris, one of the top Evo guys in the world. If you don't know him you don't know Evo's. This is what he said, among other things, in a thread recently on the MLR. He is speaking about Full-Race only here:
And if you have read posts from David Buschur, he has not been impressed by the kits as well.
Also Geoff has said in a post on the MLR that the vertical flow intercooler compromises intake air temps to improve response. I don't think anyone wants to make this compromise.
Here is the full thread which brings to light many issues.
http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=217286
I bring all this up because I think it is unfair for Full-Race to continue to sell a product which has not been tested against other products in their space.
Here is a quote from Simon Norris, one of the top Evo guys in the world. If you don't know him you don't know Evo's. This is what he said, among other things, in a thread recently on the MLR. He is speaking about Full-Race only here:
And if you have read posts from David Buschur, he has not been impressed by the kits as well.
Also Geoff has said in a post on the MLR that the vertical flow intercooler compromises intake air temps to improve response. I don't think anyone wants to make this compromise.
Here is the full thread which brings to light many issues.
http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=217286
I bring all this up because I think it is unfair for Full-Race to continue to sell a product which has not been tested against other products in their space.
From what I know that was a 2.3lt engine on a GT35 with something like a .78ar housing and it was a disaster 100% as the housing was wrong, I think it was a machined diesel housing but Geoff will correct this if I am wrong,
I have now fitted 4 Full race TS kits, 1 Was a GT30 with a .78 with BC cams and this was very poor 50% of this was the cams, It made less power than a Evo green and the owner was not happy,
We then changed to a 1.06ar housing and this realy picked the engine up and made it a good package but limited by the poor choise of camshafts, This housing was supplied Free from Full race after the problems we had with it,
The next was a GT35 T4 flange this was a mistake when they sent the kit out as it was meant to be a GT30, Geoff recomended I kept the GT35 kit and use it which I did,
The results worked very well and very happy with the spool, In the spec we ran the engine it was proberly down about 30hp on a open scroll but picked up much more else where so happy,
The other 2 where GT4088 kits on a 2.2Lt, Other than a change of exhaust housing from a .95 to a 1.06 these kits made the power they should and had very good responce and made 2.4bar boost in 4th gear by 4200rpm,
What I have learnt is the engine/turbo spec need to be tailord to the TS system to make it realy work,
Also what I learnt was I think the TS kits from Full race where under developed or they should have been more proactive in the spec's there kits should be run at to get the best out of them.
Mark
Twin Scroll turbo kits work, there is no about that. I have no idea why a company such as Norris Designs would say that they don't.
LT I also have two 44mm gates on my kit. Over kill?? I would say yes definitely, but they sure do look good.
LT I also have two 44mm gates on my kit. Over kill?? I would say yes definitely, but they sure do look good.