Twinscroll + HTA
immediate spool
incredible mid range power
huge total power for the size of the turbo
10 second passes when well setup from a turbo that choke flows at what, 40 pounds/min?
Obviously if the stock turbo is so capable with such a small compressor, it should be of no surprise that upping the size of the turbo will have the same end effect.
Like Geoff said, just because people don't post results all over the internet doesn't mean it doesn't work or hasn't been tested.
I've been looking for a very long time for the ultimate street combo (like everyone else). Being NON biased toward ANY tuner/tuning house or any workshop because I’m in Australia it’s opened my eyes a little to see people's true colours.
So many people become fan boys because of marketing techniques and the “sheep” type of mentality. If you spend the time to look around at the hard data and cipher though all the opinions you will find twinscroll works, weather it be on an 4G63, EJ25 or SR20. There is plenty of hard data available that proves TS works and works VERY well when set up correctly.
When a workshop or individual say XYZ about someone else’s product that doesn’t mean you should take it as gospel, if you respect them and trust them, great but be aware of their under lying agenda. Lets say ‘EVIL-Workshop’ has the best GT35r kit out there and everyone uses it and LOVES it. It has probably taken a massive amount of development and time to get all the parts working in harmony from the built block, heads, cams, intake etc, but once they have the working combo is fantastic! Then ‘EVIL-Workshop’ tests a twinscroll setup and don’t like it, they probably didn’t spend the time to find the combo that made it shine like they did on there own kit. It’s just an example and take it as you will.
I think Full-Race has been beaten on and if you actually spend the time and find out the data for yourself you will see. Granted a lot of people don’t have the time and I suppose this is where a lot of the ‘opinions’ come from. Full-Race stuff works, get the right combo and you won't be happier.
On a side note I have never seen Geoff act anything but professionally on EvoM, NASIOC and IWSTI, not once have I seen him say a bad word about a competitor’s product or a person. It’s rare to see that these days.
I've been looking for a very long time for the ultimate street combo (like everyone else). Being NON biased toward ANY tuner/tuning house or any workshop because I’m in Australia it’s opened my eyes a little to see people's true colours.
So many people become fan boys because of marketing techniques and the “sheep” type of mentality. If you spend the time to look around at the hard data and cipher though all the opinions you will find twinscroll works, weather it be on an 4G63, EJ25 or SR20. There is plenty of hard data available that proves TS works and works VERY well when set up correctly.
When a workshop or individual say XYZ about someone else’s product that doesn’t mean you should take it as gospel, if you respect them and trust them, great but be aware of their under lying agenda. Lets say ‘EVIL-Workshop’ has the best GT35r kit out there and everyone uses it and LOVES it. It has probably taken a massive amount of development and time to get all the parts working in harmony from the built block, heads, cams, intake etc, but once they have the working combo is fantastic! Then ‘EVIL-Workshop’ tests a twinscroll setup and don’t like it, they probably didn’t spend the time to find the combo that made it shine like they did on there own kit. It’s just an example and take it as you will.
I think Full-Race has been beaten on and if you actually spend the time and find out the data for yourself you will see. Granted a lot of people don’t have the time and I suppose this is where a lot of the ‘opinions’ come from. Full-Race stuff works, get the right combo and you won't be happier.
On a side note I have never seen Geoff act anything but professionally on EvoM, NASIOC and IWSTI, not once have I seen him say a bad word about a competitor’s product or a person. It’s rare to see that these days.
Please bear with me, I just want to verify:
So HTA still uses a Garrett turbine, but a Borg Warner compressor wheel?
Geoff, are you saying that you feel since HTA is basically stuffing a larger wheel into the same size housing, it negates the maximum benefits of TS due to the fact that it doesn't allow one to take advantage pf the maximum benefits of TS with a larger housing?
for a twinscroll system to work optimally, the turbine efficiency needs to be spot-on, and that is very hard to attain with a mismatch turbo
Here is my twin scroll kit from ETS. Its a HTA35R with the 1.06 AR exhaust housing. Its currently somewhere between the USA and Australia. Once it arrives and I have all the other parts I will install it, get it tuned and turn up the boost to give some results on how it performs.
I will only chime in to say that what we still haven't seen in the US market, at least on a EVO, is a maxxed out 35R, 4088, or similiar setup pushing 36psi+ on a fully built setup.
Still waiting, but I will agree very much in the spool difference!! It's there.
Still waiting, but I will agree very much in the spool difference!! It's there.
EvoM is an open forum, C.R., and anytime that Simon Norris wishes to comment or otherwise express his opinion, he is welcome to do so personally. There is absolutely no need for you to serve as proxy.
Last edited by sparky; Aug 30, 2008 at 06:00 AM.
Evolved Member
Joined: Oct 2002
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What I read about the vertical IC in that thread I thought was worth sharing alone.
Twinscroll works. Your EVO came equipped with it, and every factory sized turbo through the FP Red has it. It's a big reason why these turbos are so responsive on the street, and something as small as an open 3071R absolutely is not.
Whether or not you can make TS work for your large turbo application depends entirely upon you. If you configure it properly for your application, you'll be completely satisfied. That isn't as easy as it sounds. We're still learning, and so will you.
The only way one can truly evaluate a TS setup is to drive it on the street, not dyno rollers. The end.
Whether or not you can make TS work for your large turbo application depends entirely upon you. If you configure it properly for your application, you'll be completely satisfied. That isn't as easy as it sounds. We're still learning, and so will you.
The only way one can truly evaluate a TS setup is to drive it on the street, not dyno rollers. The end.
Evolved Member
Joined: Oct 2002
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Teddie B!
I know twin scroll works
, but I guess the ultimate question is, do the particularly configured kits from Full-Race work that customers actually get once they send 7k FR's way. And the answer is well I guess sometimes but maybe getting better?
That was my only point. And also the effectiveness of the vertical flow as well is an issue I thought was worth bringing to peoples attention.
I know twin scroll works
, but I guess the ultimate question is, do the particularly configured kits from Full-Race work that customers actually get once they send 7k FR's way. And the answer is well I guess sometimes but maybe getting better?That was my only point. And also the effectiveness of the vertical flow as well is an issue I thought was worth bringing to peoples attention.
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 41
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From: Scotland
Teddie B!
I know twin scroll works, but I guess the ultimate question is, do the particularly configured kits from Full-Race work that customers actually get once they send 7k FR's way. And the answer is well I guess sometimes but maybe getting better?
That was my only point. And also the effectiveness of the vertical flow as well is an issue I thought was worth bringing to peoples attention.
I know twin scroll works
, but I guess the ultimate question is, do the particularly configured kits from Full-Race work that customers actually get once they send 7k FR's way. And the answer is well I guess sometimes but maybe getting better?That was my only point. And also the effectiveness of the vertical flow as well is an issue I thought was worth bringing to peoples attention.
If you require help in putting together a kit then contact Geoff - a more knowledgable and pleasant guy you will probably not come across - and he will do his best to help you out and advise you
The vertical flow intercooler was added to these kits as the kits were designed for a responsive set-up. Hence the twin scroll, shorter pipework - all to aid spool. It's all about give and take. You gain the spool but lose out on the IAT as was clearly evident when the kits were launched. If you want lower IAT's then use the horizontal intercooler.
Feels like people are beating on Full Race here without understanding how to properly configure a twin scroll setup.
John
Here is my twin scroll kit from ETS. Its a HTA35R with the 1.06 AR exhaust housing. Its currently somewhere between the USA and Australia. Once it arrives and I have all the other parts I will install it, get it tuned and turn up the boost to give some results on how it performs.