450awhp Power Goal on 93oct
The two major obsticals that I forsee when shooting for pump gas tunes are this:
1) Timing-
obviously running pump gas lower octane gas would require a more conservative timing map over a higher octane gas. Seeing how the car is a street car that may obtain gas from several different locations and manufacturers, the problem I forsee is the requirement to pull some excess timing to keep knock down and keep the car reliable on the street for different brands and quality gas it may be subjected to. Pulling timing becomes a double edged sword...
Pulling too much timing can cause the EGT's to rise drastically. Higher EGTs are good for melting things such as pistons and valves. The higher the EGTs the more porne you also become to detonation/knock.
Pulling to little timing may present issues if the quality of gas suddenly changes from the gas it was tuned on. This also would lead to detonation or preignition..
Seeing how I prefer to tune leaner AFR's and less timing, this becomes my major concearn. I tend to be conservative on the timing at all times, unless on good gas. The extra 15-20whp is not worth longevity. {thumbup**
2)AIT's (turbo efficiency)
attempting to make the most power on 93 would require the subtraction of timing, obviously robbing some power.Therefore some more boost needs to be added to make up for the lost power from the lack of aggressive timing. Now you have another dillema....
The efficency of the turbo...You need to know if raising your boost from 25psi to30 psi just turned your your turbo into a hair dryer blowing HOT air.. This hot air will raise AIT's and EGT's and increase combustion cylinder pressure and lead to detonation just the same. Additional Fuel will assist in cooling the cylinders down a bit to surpress the detonation, but now you just robbed you engine of power by dumping it pig rich..Putting you back in the same boat. Generally when I see EGT's rising towards dangerous levels while raising boost and pulling timing, I begin to realize the limit of that particular car and modifications.
One way i love to combat the above is the addition of a methenol system. However i can not stress enough to those of you to get one with a failsafe signaling system that will let you know if it stops spraying. On some systems you can wire it up to convert back to a less agressive timing and fuel map as well as lower boost map, should it go empty or malfunction. I love the AEM system personally, it has a ground intterupt fail safe wire that can be wired to some EMS's and also an LED that alerts the user of malfunction.
Personally seeing how expensive the buildups generally are, I would always opt for the safest route, not the most aggressive. I like to leave the record setting to the race cars, and the driving longevity to the street cars. {thumbup**
Hope this helps..
1) Timing-
obviously running pump gas lower octane gas would require a more conservative timing map over a higher octane gas. Seeing how the car is a street car that may obtain gas from several different locations and manufacturers, the problem I forsee is the requirement to pull some excess timing to keep knock down and keep the car reliable on the street for different brands and quality gas it may be subjected to. Pulling timing becomes a double edged sword...
Pulling too much timing can cause the EGT's to rise drastically. Higher EGTs are good for melting things such as pistons and valves. The higher the EGTs the more porne you also become to detonation/knock.
Pulling to little timing may present issues if the quality of gas suddenly changes from the gas it was tuned on. This also would lead to detonation or preignition..
Seeing how I prefer to tune leaner AFR's and less timing, this becomes my major concearn. I tend to be conservative on the timing at all times, unless on good gas. The extra 15-20whp is not worth longevity. {thumbup**
2)AIT's (turbo efficiency)
attempting to make the most power on 93 would require the subtraction of timing, obviously robbing some power.Therefore some more boost needs to be added to make up for the lost power from the lack of aggressive timing. Now you have another dillema....
The efficency of the turbo...You need to know if raising your boost from 25psi to30 psi just turned your your turbo into a hair dryer blowing HOT air.. This hot air will raise AIT's and EGT's and increase combustion cylinder pressure and lead to detonation just the same. Additional Fuel will assist in cooling the cylinders down a bit to surpress the detonation, but now you just robbed you engine of power by dumping it pig rich..Putting you back in the same boat. Generally when I see EGT's rising towards dangerous levels while raising boost and pulling timing, I begin to realize the limit of that particular car and modifications.
One way i love to combat the above is the addition of a methenol system. However i can not stress enough to those of you to get one with a failsafe signaling system that will let you know if it stops spraying. On some systems you can wire it up to convert back to a less agressive timing and fuel map as well as lower boost map, should it go empty or malfunction. I love the AEM system personally, it has a ground intterupt fail safe wire that can be wired to some EMS's and also an LED that alerts the user of malfunction.
Personally seeing how expensive the buildups generally are, I would always opt for the safest route, not the most aggressive. I like to leave the record setting to the race cars, and the driving longevity to the street cars. {thumbup**
Hope this helps..
You got me man I am a brainless idiot sorry for not knowing anything about what a bumper beam does 
. Chances are if your "baby" is hit in the front up to 5mph it's gonna be your fault for not watching what you are doing
That turbo is gonna make a ton of heat to make that power, I just figured you would want a provin FMIC is all.
. Chances are if your "baby" is hit in the front up to 5mph it's gonna be your fault for not watching what you are doingThat turbo is gonna make a ton of heat to make that power, I just figured you would want a provin FMIC is all.
Even two months later, I reread his posts and find him to be a bit of a smartass, and I even like Buschur, but blind brand support is not productive. I am sure that Buschur makes a great IC, but I want my crash beam and as such have ordered an ETS 4" Wide tank IC.
I know, I know... I want the e85 badly... However, its still not available EVERYWHERE, though most places it is. The two down sides: terrible mileage, and the additional tuning and whatnot needed to run it year round. Anyone know what that set up would put out on e85?
chris tuned my car for e85, and i daily drive it. as u know its into the 20's already at night.
car starts on 1st crank. near stock driveability and im on 1200 inj and stock ecu. see sig for details/power
oh and this is on ams dynojet. i am the the 3rd red he has tuned.
Good to heard, couple questions as you are running pretty much what I would like to:
Is your double pumper a necessity? or would a single walbro get the job done for ~450awhp on e85?
Did you require two tunes (one for e85 [summer] and e70 [winter])?
How much are you pushing the tune? 30psi seems like decent boost for e85 but based on your mods I would think you might be able to eek out maybe even another 50awhp.
Out of curiosity, did you do a self install of the cams and head studs through 1x1 or did you have AMS do the install? I am thinking I would like those two bits professionally done... but I am wondering at what cost.
Thanks!
Is your double pumper a necessity? or would a single walbro get the job done for ~450awhp on e85?
Did you require two tunes (one for e85 [summer] and e70 [winter])?
How much are you pushing the tune? 30psi seems like decent boost for e85 but based on your mods I would think you might be able to eek out maybe even another 50awhp.
Out of curiosity, did you do a self install of the cams and head studs through 1x1 or did you have AMS do the install? I am thinking I would like those two bits professionally done... but I am wondering at what cost.
Thanks!
i have a similar setup to you and im making the power you have set your goal for. plus i hve a 03 evo and old school gsc 272's.
chris tuned my car for e85, and i daily drive it. as u know its into the 20's already at night.
car starts on 1st crank. near stock driveability and im on 1200 inj and stock ecu. see sig for details/power
oh and this is on ams dynojet. i am the the 3rd red he has tuned.
chris tuned my car for e85, and i daily drive it. as u know its into the 20's already at night.
car starts on 1st crank. near stock driveability and im on 1200 inj and stock ecu. see sig for details/power
oh and this is on ams dynojet. i am the the 3rd red he has tuned.
Edit: Looks like 30psi; I'm sure you were tuned pretty conservatively for reliability.
Last edited by Creamo3; Dec 4, 2008 at 07:47 AM.
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Joined: Oct 2008
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From: New Joisey
I myself am running an AMS GT30 kit, GSC stage 1 cams, upgraded headstuds and headgaskets, at 26 psi on 93 Octane. I made 342 on a AWD Dyno Dynamics dyno, whcih should be about 380-390 on a Dynojet dyno. Even at these levels I am picking up random knock counts from tank to tank and would say this is where I feel I am limited for reliable driving on 93 octane. I know its the gas cause i threw in some C-16 one night i had lying around and added 3-4 degrees of timing and the knock did not occur and the vehicle felt faster on my but Dyno..Cant wait to add my meth kit soon, its sitting in my trunk calling my name..
1st of all that crash beam is nothing more than a bumper support.. 2nd the Buschur 4" FMIC fits with crash beam..
I never sell the widetanks ETS either.. I prefer the larger core standard tank for the same $$ but thats just me..
Mike
Good to heard, couple questions as you are running pretty much what I would like to:
Is your double pumper a necessity? or would a single walbro get the job done for ~450awhp on e85?
Did you require two tunes (one for e85 [summer] and e70 [winter])?
How much are you pushing the tune? 30psi seems like decent boost for e85 but based on your mods I would think you might be able to eek out maybe even another 50awhp.
Out of curiosity, did you do a self install of the cams and head studs through 1x1 or did you have AMS do the install? I am thinking I would like those two bits professionally done... but I am wondering at what cost.
Thanks!
Is your double pumper a necessity? or would a single walbro get the job done for ~450awhp on e85?
Did you require two tunes (one for e85 [summer] and e70 [winter])?
How much are you pushing the tune? 30psi seems like decent boost for e85 but based on your mods I would think you might be able to eek out maybe even another 50awhp.
Out of curiosity, did you do a self install of the cams and head studs through 1x1 or did you have AMS do the install? I am thinking I would like those two bits professionally done... but I am wondering at what cost.
Thanks!
yeah double pumper is what was recommended to me above 400 whp.
yeah 450 awhp is what i have. i attribute that to it being a 03 with a less efficient head, and old school gsc's 272 which are less aggressive than S1's or Kelfords.
i installed the cams myself long ago. AMS did my headstuds 1x1 as they would not push 30 psi without htem.
maybe there is more power dont know. he tuned it such that if i go to a track he said it would be ok to turn the psi up a few clicks.
further more i have an 03 with a less efficient head than a IX, and also i am tuned for E70 since thats what we have here 90 % of the time.
very happy with teh spool and performanc. its a daily driver and i personally beleive u cant do much practically with more than 450-500 whp on the street with such q quick spooling turbo. greater than that is just bragging rights when it comes to running on the street.
Buschur says themselves the their 4" core will NOT fit with an unmodified crash beam.
I see no use for ETS's wider core as the IX bumper restricts the amount of surface area exposed to flowing air, the wide tank allows for identical flow area as it fills the opening in the bumper. In addition, it also will not fit with the crash beam.
Last edited by Protostar1; Dec 6, 2008 at 07:34 PM.
its tuned for E70 year round. it runs fine. its 9 degrees here right now. started on 1st crank. we get E70 only july august as does most of midwest, so tune is for E70. i only run ethano so i dont switch maps. have one tune only
yeah double pumper is what was recommended to me above 400 whp.
yeah 450 awhp is what i have. i attribute that to it being a 03 with a less efficient head, and old school gsc's 272 which are less aggressive than S1's or Kelfords.
i installed the cams myself long ago. AMS did my headstuds 1x1 as they would not push 30 psi without htem.
yeah double pumper is what was recommended to me above 400 whp.
yeah 450 awhp is what i have. i attribute that to it being a 03 with a less efficient head, and old school gsc's 272 which are less aggressive than S1's or Kelfords.
i installed the cams myself long ago. AMS did my headstuds 1x1 as they would not push 30 psi without htem.