Hi guys,

I am building an Evo IX race car (circuit), and am in the process of finalising the full specification of the engine.

I have some decent engine building knowledge and experience, but want to get the opinions of those experts on this great forum that might be able to answer a few specific questions.

I will be building the engine myself and documenting every step of the way here and on my website (link in sig). The questions below are only relevant for the bottom end. I am as yet undecided with what I will be doing with the head and intake manifold.

I've also got quite a few engine build threads subscribed on EvoM, but if you guys want to suggest any particular threads on here that have really excellent technical information, that would be great.

Brief overview of my requirements:
* 2.0L capacity.
* 10,000rpm capable.
* 700hp+ capable bottom end.
* 30psi+ capable.
* Race fuel (VP109 or similar)
* In the process of designing a custom dry sump system, but may end up running with wet sump.
* Head and intake work TBA, but obviously essential to get anywhere near the desired power output.

So...

1. What parts are considered the best of the best? For each of pistons, rods, valves, guides etc...

2. What crankshaft preparation is required if using the stock crank?

3. Are there any top shelf aftermarket cranks available for 2.0L engines that are superior to the stock item?

4. What block preparation will be required to achieve the requirements?

Thanks!

 

Carillo make a crank, as do eagle. What cams and turbo are you using? Are you going to use steel rods?

 

This thread will soon be filled with many different answers to each question. But I'll give you my opinion.

1. What parts are considered the best of the best? For each of pistons, rods, valves, guides etc...

Pistons: I recommend JE Pistons, they are made from 2618 low silicon alloy which provides extra strength in high heat, endurance applications. Other pistons will work, but some lack the R&D and precision machining. I believe TTP has some coated JE pistons spec'd out.

Rods: Carrillo makes an excellent connecting rod if you can afford it. Most other rods are made in China. After Carrillo, I would recommend Cosworth, HKS, Arrow, Crower or Pauter.

Valves: If you have the cash...Del West or Xceldyne. Other options include Ferrea, Brian Crower, REV, Supertech and more. Ferrea makes valve guides off the shelf for the 4G63 engine.

2. What crankshaft preparation is required if using the stock crank?
I've never used a stock crank, but would think you should do your best to smooth the oil passages and forging to eliminate any stress risers. Obviously, clean and measure too.

3. Are there any top shelf aftermarket cranks available for 2.0L engines that are superior to the stock item?
Depends on how much money you want to spend. What's your budget? Here's a quick breakdown:
$3000+ : Sonny Bryant, Arrow Precision (formerly DKE)...all custom made
$2000+: Crower (if they will make only one custom), Marine Crankshaft, Cosworth
$1000+: Brian Crower, K1 Technologies (both billet)
Under $1000: Eagle, stock crank

4. What block preparation will be required to achieve the requirements?
It shouldn't take all that much to prep the block for this, just the normal cleanup, machine and inspection.

If you have any specific questions, feel free to PM me.

 

Thanks very much for that info mate. It's very helpful.

I won't be using any Eagle parts in the new engine... hesitant about Brian Crower parts as well... not that there is anything inherently wrong with them (lets not get into the Eagle or B/C bashing on this thread eh?), just that they're not top shelf.

Carillo rods... I have had recommendations on these before. Same with the JE Pistons. I have some very rough ideas of what's good, but am hoping to get other opinions that will confirm (or otherwise) my own research.

Thanks again! Any more opinions from other guys - feel free to chime in!

 

Your a baller and got lots of $$$, just let someone else build it for you.

Just kidding mate. Good luck with the build. Your thread is helping me too.

 

K1 crank (lightweight version) from Wiseco

Ross or Arias pistons

R&R aluminum rods

More less I would build the same bottom end as we did for Paul Nelson's 8 second Evo, run less boost, and let it last all season. You are circuit racing so I am assuming (despite what grandma used to say) that you will have an uprated oil cooler or 2, a light clutch, and bigger cooling over all. Run the lightest reciprocating assembly you can at the lowest boost for your power goal. If you are limited to a 2.0L by class rules there are several 35R-esque turbos out there that should supply 700hp and still maintain decent spool (5k) and run all the way to 10k and keep the power going.

 

Thanks very much JB - glad you weighed in on this one - I've been following your posts for a few years now.

Contrary to post ^^ I don't have a huge budget... But I am willing to wait for the money to come in so that I may build what I want. Hence the reason it has taken me 12 months to build the chassis alone! And hence the reason these questions have gone out there - I want the bottom end to 1. last and 2. support anything the head is capable of.

As most people involved in motorsport engine building will tell you, the horsepower comes from the head, but the bottom end needs to be capable.

I have no class limitations regarding engine capacity. I do like an engine that revs however, and the common theme/fad/trend in Australia is to build stroker 4G63s. I like doing things differently and don't want to just jump on the stroker bandwagon. Of course if it's (stroker) going to result in quicker lap times at the end of the day, then that's what is required, but otherwise I would like to achieve good times on the 2.0L.

JB - you don't happen to have any links to a build diary of Paul Nelsons engine do you?

Also, yes, cooling has been a big part of my research so far. There are a number of things that I'm doing to aid cooling of engine and transmission oils. I also have a small diameter twin plate clutch sitting at home.

Lastly, turbo spool/lag will be relative on this engine. I am aiming for a 4500rpm spool (i.e. max boost), and a working power band of 5000-10000rpm, again, only once the head is complete. During initial testing (built bottom end / stock top end) I will limit the engine to 8000rpm.

Thanks again for the great feedback.

 

If it were up to me:

I'd probably use the factory crank. They've proven to be adequate for just about anything, and AFAIK, everything else mentioned is Chinese-made. I'm not big on Chinese parts for this type of specific output, especially where endurance is important. Find a clean factory crank and have it magnafluxed and checked.

I would suggest either Crower or Oliver billet rods. Both are true CNC billet pieces (Arrow, Carillo, and Pauter are forged), are readily available for the 4G63 and are thoroughly proven. I've seen a set of Olivers subjected to severe abuse, and they all bent as opposed to breaking. That was convincing enough for me to never consider using another rod. I'd opt for Oliver's 3N100 super speedway set, with ARP Custom Age 625 bolts.

There are several piston options. TTP's JE offerings appear to be well suited toward heat rejection (an important aspect of an endurance piston), and should fare well in this application. The Venolia set JAM uses look as though they were designed with severe thermal abuse in mind, and are also proven.

AMS' new oil pan may be suitable enough to avoid a dry sump setup. So long as the oil stays in the pan and not in the head, that would probably do the trick.

The mains area can be bolstered a bit with block filler without a cooling penalty if you are really intent on turning that type of rpm. And if you are, you can count on frequent rebuilds. Consider a Fluidampr to replace the factory crank hub. Your bearings should last longer.

Plan on increasing your oil cooling capacity. You really want to keep oil temps to around 100C.

IF I were intent on using a 35R and was aiming for full boost at 4500rpm, I would use a T4 TS setup. It will spool faster, and the transient response will be superior. But, that's just me . . .

 

Thanks Ted. Another educated member adding their 2c. I've been reading up on the various increased SCR threads that are around, and not the discussions between yourself, DTM, and HeadGames. Interesting reading, and while I was 50/50 on running an increased SCR, I'm leaning more toward it now.

I have been told by an Aussie workshop here that the factory crank is sufficient for very high power outputs. I think the usual crank prep would be fine, possibly with a heavy knife edging job done to it.

I've been looking at the new AMS wet sump... interesting, but I'm not sure how it will go as far as ground clearance etc is concerned. If I stay with a wet sump I may consider a vacuum pump system, but in itself is adding some extra expense and complexity that could probably be better invested in a dry sump system.

Fluidampr - check! I didn't know if this was really a useful item on the 4G63T, so thanks for the suggestion. On a similar issue... balance shafts at high rpm (9000+) - better to retain OEM, run machined shafts, or remove entirely?

I will be running an increased oil capacity, wet or dry. I have a much larger cooler in the stock position, and am contemplating an additional smaller cooler after the larger one. Might be tight for room though, as I'm also going to be running a power steering fluid cooler.

Turbo choice duly noted...

Thanks again - fantastic input from all you guys.

 

thought about doing the AMS 2.3RR?

 

Remove the balance shaft belts on a race motor. Just something that can fail since its turning twice engine speed.

 

Not interested in a pre-built engine...

1. I want to build the engine myself, and;

2. I'm in Australia and freight costs for a full engine from the US would make the exercise more expensive than if I bought an engine off an Australian engine builder.

 

Thanks again to everyone for all the input both here and via PM.

I just wanted to throw this one out there, and I know it's also going to get lots of different opinions, but I'm still interested in your feedback.

Considering this will be a circuit racing engine, would it be better to run 2.0L (stock crank), 2.2L (e.g. Cosworth 94mm crank), or 2.3L (4G94 crank) as far as outright performance goes, and if so, why?

 

i still say 2.3RR because you have the torque of the 2.3 and the powerband/rpm of a 2.0.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=373734

 

Hey dude,

You should have a look at my blog, I think you will find some interesting reading there.

Here is a teaser