Redline Heavy ShockProof Gear Oil or Amsoil SEVERE GEAR SVG?
Dec 2, 2008, 05:33 PM
#61
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my thing on this this whole "oil" issue is if these "oil's" (amsoil) is so good how come u never here of any high hp evo running them or some well known shop that the evo community knows or knows of atleast trying them out? atleast to give a review on the product, but ive never seen anything good nor bad??
Paul Nelson's 1120 HP EVO on AMSOIL ..
Other than that because he doesn't mind telling everyone... I won't disclose anyone by name because people will start to inundate them with phone calls, emails or whatever.. I almost lost a Major NASCAR Team due to that.. Last time I will make that mistake... Buscher has nothing against AMSOIL, I have customers that have asked them and they said it was fine...
now if u want to send me some trans fluid and t-case fluid to try for free thats a different story, ill write a full review on the product and let everyone know how it performs against REDLINE. The thing is if i remember correct i remember the amsoil being alot more then the redline thats what turned me away from them no matter how good pl said it was i just couldent see paying that much money for fluid all the time
Paul Nelson's 1120 HP EVO on AMSOIL ..
Other than that because he doesn't mind telling everyone... I won't disclose anyone by name because people will start to inundate them with phone calls, emails or whatever.. I almost lost a Major NASCAR Team due to that.. Last time I will make that mistake... Buscher has nothing against AMSOIL, I have customers that have asked them and they said it was fine...
now if u want to send me some trans fluid and t-case fluid to try for free thats a different story, ill write a full review on the product and let everyone know how it performs against REDLINE. The thing is if i remember correct i remember the amsoil being alot more then the redline thats what turned me away from them no matter how good pl said it was i just couldent see paying that much money for fluid all the time
If you don't care how good a Product is compared to cost, then this is futile.. I run nothing but the best in my vehicles including my Lawn Equipment... If you compare value per dollar spent, paying a little more up front means nothing.
It takes more than just using a product if you really want to do a proper revue.. but if you would like, you can purchase AMSOIL from me at the 5% Rebate... I am sure Redline won't give you product either...
Doc
Dec 3, 2008, 02:16 PM
#62
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dan; i am an AMSOIL dealer however i am not going to sit here behind this pc trying to sell you every AMSOIL prods because the reality is every company has 1 or 2 prods that suck plus in this business the money maker is not retail.
i am not saying that our Diff oil's are bad i am just saying that we have sent out 2 Trenfers that are blown and what they had AMSOIL in it ( not implying it was because the AMSOIL becasue the cause could be anything ) one of those diffs went out for overhaul, the shop told my customer stright up OEM and is ok AMSOIL for tranny, but no AMSOIL for TC.
here in CFL we have a close relationship with Shep, he comes down to our annual war of the imports which is this next upcoming weekend, we send a vast of trannys and TC rear diffs to him weekly, all of our shops in town fill your diffs with OEM, TTP has said he uses Shockproof, we all know is a dirty oil, however gets the job done when your launching at 6k with 500 WHP and tq.
{thumbup**
oh and by the way you need oil, remeber we dont have any overhead, so its going out cheap
i am not saying that our Diff oil's are bad i am just saying that we have sent out 2 Trenfers that are blown and what they had AMSOIL in it ( not implying it was because the AMSOIL becasue the cause could be anything ) one of those diffs went out for overhaul, the shop told my customer stright up OEM and is ok AMSOIL for tranny, but no AMSOIL for TC.
here in CFL we have a close relationship with Shep, he comes down to our annual war of the imports which is this next upcoming weekend, we send a vast of trannys and TC rear diffs to him weekly, all of our shops in town fill your diffs with OEM, TTP has said he uses Shockproof, we all know is a dirty oil, however gets the job done when your launching at 6k with 500 WHP and tq.
{thumbup**
oh and by the way you need oil, remeber we dont have any overhead, so its going out cheap
Oildoc, I'm willing to do a little test for you. Three years ago we did a Shep tranny in my buddies 140K AWD talon. We put it all back together, put it on stands, and ran the tranny through the gears as per john's recommendations. In our haste and worry to break the tranny in correctly we forgot to fill the tx case with fluid. It had shockproof medium in it and sat on the shop floor draining for 2 weeks. We spun the tranny for 10 mins on stands. Then we took it up on the highway for 12 or so miles so that he could pull it into my garage and I set the timing for him (we pulled the head for a valvestem seal replacement). He asked me how much fluid I put in the tx case and I replied that I thought he put fluid in. Not only did the origional tx case survive but its still in the car three years later and 80+ quarter mile passes later. It just ran 11's as a matter of fact:
oil starved tx case with shockproof
How about this for a test. We'll put Amsoil in the tx case, I'll pay for it. Then we will drain it and drive 12 miles. If the tx case fails you buy us a new one. If it doesn't you can gloat all you'd like. We won't even put it through the torture of 80+ quarter mile passes on top of the oil starvation.
Dec 3, 2008, 02:37 PM
#63
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The problem I see with Shockproof, even though it works, is that it uses Tackifiers which are Polymers that separate out. This is what Jon @ TRE was referring to a "Waxy Buildup", which can lead to excessive heat build up and a definite loss of HP due to viscous friction..
Never said it didn't work, just said that there are better alternatives.. If a heavier fluid is deemed necessary... we can go to 110, 140, 195 or even 250...
I believe Jon said that they have temp guages set up on their trans and TC... Or even if John at Shep has this, I would like to talk to them about some Co-Op testing.. If it runs Cooler with AMSOIL, we know right away it is doing a better job.
As for your "Test"... I've seen the same thing many times over with AMSOIL, even worse.... Sounds like you may have watched too many commercials about the cars running without oil and believed them..
Doc
Never said it didn't work, just said that there are better alternatives.. If a heavier fluid is deemed necessary... we can go to 110, 140, 195 or even 250...
I believe Jon said that they have temp guages set up on their trans and TC... Or even if John at Shep has this, I would like to talk to them about some Co-Op testing.. If it runs Cooler with AMSOIL, we know right away it is doing a better job.
As for your "Test"... I've seen the same thing many times over with AMSOIL, even worse.... Sounds like you may have watched too many commercials about the cars running without oil and believed them..
Doc
Dec 3, 2008, 03:37 PM
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Hypoid refers to the cut style of the gears.... It was a widely used Marketing term in the Marine Industry many years ago to keep people "In House" buying products.
The following paragraph can be found on the lower left of the second page in this link.. http://www.bestoil4you.com/files/g2043SVG.pdf
Recommended for use in differentials, manual
transmissions and other gear applications requiring any
of the following specifications: API GL-5, MT-1,
MIL-PRF-2105E, Dana SHAES 234 (Formerly Eaton
PS-037), Mack GO-J, or the differential (hypoid) gear oil
specifications from all domestic and foreign manufacturers
Doc
The following paragraph can be found on the lower left of the second page in this link.. http://www.bestoil4you.com/files/g2043SVG.pdf
Recommended for use in differentials, manual
transmissions and other gear applications requiring any
of the following specifications: API GL-5, MT-1,
MIL-PRF-2105E, Dana SHAES 234 (Formerly Eaton
PS-037), Mack GO-J, or the differential (hypoid) gear oil
specifications from all domestic and foreign manufacturers
Doc
Dec 3, 2008, 04:09 PM
#66
Cool. I just read somewhere else that the Extreme Pressure (EP) nomenclature is equivalent to Hypiod. Looks like what hypiod refers to is the use of extreme pressure additives that are required in hypiod gears because their sliding action creates extreme pressure between the teeth.
Dec 3, 2008, 04:11 PM
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I don't watch television. The most important "test" for me is inspecting the fluid coming out of the drain plug, and inspecting the magnetic drain plug. This "waxy" buildup doesn't seem to be a problem in the only area that it should be a problem, the transmission due to the oiling requirements especially for 5th gear on a DSM style trans. I know this because I have 80,000 miles on my DSM using this fluid and 42,000 miles on my Evo using this fluid. How many miles do you have behind a mitsubishi based transmission?
Unfortunately I don't have any experience inspecting gears like some transmission shops. This is because my friend and I drive to the track, run 11's, and drive 60 miles, or in the case of the shootout, 250 miles back home.
Unfortunately I don't have any experience inspecting gears like some transmission shops. This is because my friend and I drive to the track, run 11's, and drive 60 miles, or in the case of the shootout, 250 miles back home.
Dec 3, 2008, 04:32 PM
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Cool. I just read somewhere else that the Extreme Pressure (EP) nomenclature is equivalent to Hypiod. Looks like what hypiod refers to is the use of extreme pressure additives that are required in hypiod gears because their sliding action creates extreme pressure between the teeth.
EP refers to the type of additive. Sulpher (the smell in gear lube) is a great EP additive but can be detrimental in a synchro tranny as it attacks Brass, Bronze and Copper.
That is why if your Spec is a GL-4, you must make sure the Lube you use has that Spec such as AMSOIL MTG. A GL-5 DOES NOT automatically supercede a GL-4. But then you get some marketing guy at Mits and Specs their new tranny fluid at a GL-3... Why ? Because there is no such rating anymore and it keeps the unknowing coming back to buy an extremely overpriced fluid.
Some people actually believe that an EP additive can be used in motor oil (it can't) so you get the results they see from people using "One Armed Bandits" that they used on TV and at Fairs and Flea Markets..
In a Diff, there is only approximately one and a half teeth in contact at a time... Undoubtedly one of the most tortured parts in the drivetrain.
Doc
Dec 3, 2008, 05:09 PM
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No, because both that and the Valvoline Syn-Power failed Critical ASTM Test..
See page 19 in the following link.
http://www.bestoil4you.com/files/g2457GearLube.pdf
Doc
Keep selling Oil for pennys over your cost 
.
Dec 4, 2008, 08:41 AM
#73
You self righteous internet warriors need to back off until you have any hard evidence to offer. Hell, run some, send it off to a lab for $20, and then at least you have a shred of evidence to be included in the conversation. Anyone who has ZERO documented results/laboratory analysis/etc may find it easy to call "foul", or biased testing, but until you have your own it's time to quit with the "you and more of it" crap. Because that is exactly how it comes off. Juvenile.
I AM NOT defending Doc, or anyone else's stance in this thread... but the self appointed internet jockey "scientists" are distracting, and detracting from the useful conversation.
If it's just a bone to pick... make your own thread, and stick to the forum rules!
I AM NOT defending Doc, or anyone else's stance in this thread... but the self appointed internet jockey "scientists" are distracting, and detracting from the useful conversation.
If it's just a bone to pick... make your own thread, and stick to the forum rules!
Dec 4, 2008, 09:54 AM
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Zeus...
Well, I was just coming here to say something to that effect... There are a lot of "Keyboard Engineers" here..
I have never said anything like the use of a certain product will cause a catostrophic failure but it does seem to get turned that way. Neither have I said that AMSOIL is a miracle wonder lube that will keep everything running into Infinity. I am not just a Flunky Salesman, I have invested over 35 years of my life into gaining knowledge about lubricants and filtration and how they effect equipment life.
I have been in contact with a couple of the builders here on the Forum and am trying to see if we can colaborate somehow on some more scientific, EVO Specific, testing. Actual testing... not "Let's drain the oil and see how far it goes"
I have well over 600 EVOm Members using AMSOIL, I don't see them making posts about how bad AMSOIL is..
Doc
Well, I was just coming here to say something to that effect... There are a lot of "Keyboard Engineers" here..
I have never said anything like the use of a certain product will cause a catostrophic failure but it does seem to get turned that way. Neither have I said that AMSOIL is a miracle wonder lube that will keep everything running into Infinity. I am not just a Flunky Salesman, I have invested over 35 years of my life into gaining knowledge about lubricants and filtration and how they effect equipment life.
I have been in contact with a couple of the builders here on the Forum and am trying to see if we can colaborate somehow on some more scientific, EVO Specific, testing. Actual testing... not "Let's drain the oil and see how far it goes"
I have well over 600 EVOm Members using AMSOIL, I don't see them making posts about how bad AMSOIL is..
Doc
Dec 4, 2008, 03:32 PM
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You self righteous internet warriors need to back off until you have any hard evidence to offer. Hell, run some, send it off to a lab for $20, and then at least you have a shred of evidence to be included in the conversation. Anyone who has ZERO documented results/laboratory analysis/etc may find it easy to call "foul", or biased testing, but until you have your own it's time to quit with the "you and more of it" crap. Because that is exactly how it comes off. Juvenile.
I AM NOT defending Doc, or anyone else's stance in this thread... but the self appointed internet jockey "scientists" are distracting, and detracting from the useful conversation.
If it's just a bone to pick... make your own thread, and stick to the forum rules!
I AM NOT defending Doc, or anyone else's stance in this thread... but the self appointed internet jockey "scientists" are distracting, and detracting from the useful conversation.
If it's just a bone to pick... make your own thread, and stick to the forum rules!
If your pointing your finger at me I have used Amsoil products in the past. Back in 2001/2002 to be more accurate. To be more accurate I have ran Amsoil, BG products, Mobil 1 products, Penzoil products, OEM fluids, Redline products, WalMart supertech brand, and probably more I just forgot about them. I was not pleased with the shift quality when used in the trans. I didn't want to post about it because I don't feel that the oils #1 job is to provide good shift quality. However high RPM lockout was issue with Amsoil that I bought at AA in Williamsport Pennsylvania. My engine DRANK, and I mean DRANK Amsoil. I was adding a quart every 800 miles. Go ahead, blame the engine. The same engine with a different oil and 40,000 more miles used a quart every 2000 miles later in life. It also went from a 15 second car on Amsoil to a 11 second engine on $12 for 5 quarts oil. The shift quality went from notch/clunky to smooth and quick with an "oil concoction" as it was succinctly put.
I have no bone to pick. I don't even have an angle. I'm not trying to sell anything. I'm also not a moderator protecting the paying vendors. I've posted nothing but facts and personal experiences. Some people would rather stick their noses into PDF "analysis". I'd rather do real world testing, which I have done, and of which I posted about.