I don't know about tony's injectors or the stock ones... But the diesel injectors that I deal with have several chambers inside the injector with spill valves and other weird channels. If the fuel is removed from the inlet of the injector fuel is still present in the inside of the injector (in the body)

***Crazy Idea worth thinking about ****
Might the fuel vaporize inside of this style injector and cause it to (lock closed...or malfunction) unlike the factory injector. This wouldn't be present with aftermarket ECU's due to their (possible) high output injector drivers that can overcome with (lockout or malfunction)
*** end crazy idea ***

I suppose I could test my idea by inverting the rail as I had suggested earlier.

 

These are high impedance injector. The amount of current drawn when the circuit is completed is a function of the resistance of the circuit and battery voltage. The drivers in an aftermarket ecu shouldn't function any differently than any of the aftermarket ecus.

As far as I know, there are no weird chambers or anything in the injector. With the EV14 injectors, they're very big and open most of the way down. You can see all the way down to the internal filter basket assembly right by the coil. I can't imagine there's anything tricky below that. I can confirm with Paul though, as he's had plenty of them apart.

 

I swapped in another ecu into my car and I have played with every start-up table that is defined as well as messed with the latency values at the lower voltages, increasing and decreasing - I cant even get it to make a change to the fact of 'hey im onto something here" its like shooting in the dark. I even switched to speed density and re-tuned the car to rule out MAF issues...

I have the problem on both fuels - E85 is more bearable, but both the issue is apparent - especially compared to when I got in danl's car after 30 min and his fired up without even a hiccup.

 

Maybe a shot in the dark, but can someone with the problem borrow an AEM EMS and see if the problem persists? If I had an EVO EMS in stock i'd send it out to one of you guys, but i don't. Since I don't have an AWD dyno here, I do very little EVO tuning. If I had one, i'd probably be able to be of a lot more help.

 

IDEA!

Travman,
Swap cam position sensors with Dan.

 

I dont see how its ecu related. It starts fine in 5 minute window. no setting in ecu changes after 20 minutes that would make it not start after that. this is my 5th set of injectors in this car. first set that give me hard start problem. as a mechanic the first question I ask people when they have an issue is "what was last change to your car?" only thing I have changed is injectors. I reserved judgment till I had good access to latency tables. I was hoping it would be simple latency adjustment. but that doesnt do a thing toward helping the issue here. the only thing left that no one seems to have checked is whether the injector is leaking down or not. I tried clamping fuel feed and return today. after 20 minutes no start. I am positive its not heat related. the injector remains almost cool to the touch.

 

So how do you explain 1 car doing it and one car not and swapping injectors makes no difference at all?

 

If he is ok with that we could try it?......might be a couple weeks till were both back in our hometown.

Here is my current latency values: These are the values of the table in ecuflash regarding battery v.

Scaling: 812

4.69v = 5.328
7.03v = 3.144
9.38v = 1.992
11.72v = 1.368
14.06v = 1.008
16.41v = .792
18.68v = .624

Low Trim = -0.2
Mid Trim = -2.1

That was after 4 days of driving...

I started with danl's latencies which he calculated in excel - I had to reduce by 15% to get my trims in check vs. his. I took the 15% off each volt to keep the same curve - I was unable to run danl's latencies.

My scaling at one time was 886 the same as dans - but since adding my short licp and uicp my scaling has reduced to 812 to get my trims in check.

 

Not to mention a set that did not work in my car worked in the car that his ID1000's work fine........this is what has myself and danl baffled, among others. Plus the chances of getting (2) bad sets of injectors in a row has to be extremely rare when there are more being sold to honda and subie guys with no reported issues from there stall.

but no idea why the evo is such a *****.

 

I'm going to log a bunch of temps tonight and hopefully take a video.

I'll be back on Evom around 8-9pm to continue our discussion!

I'll have to post up my settings I'm at 790cc

Low Trim = -2.00
Mid Trim = 0.49
after 1000 miles of driving.

 

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet in this thread but I have had a couple Evo 10's with these injectors, with the same warm start issues as well...

both moved to deatschwerks 1000cc's and no mo' problems.

One of them was on E85 and had no warm start issues with E85 but did on 91.

- Bryan

 

Here is a log of a good example of what is going on......hopefully dan (0xDEAD) can post up a log of his car starting with similar data as far as coolant temps etc.

 

when you are having a hard start, has anyone pulled a plug to smell the cylinder?

and everyone tried opening up the throttle? iow, you are sure its not over fueling?

 

No - on the pull the plug, was going to do it last weekend but it rained most of the weekend. Will do it this weekend when I put fresh plugs in the car.....

Yes - It does start somewhat faster with the throttle at 100% at least it did on e85 - 93 octane I am not noticing the same thing. But when adjusting my tables I cant take much more fuel out or the car wont fire. Actually the table that takes over cranking after the initial pulse I am the lowest it will go other than 0 which I tried and the car just cranks, wont fire. My inital pulse I had it at 0 on top of that....?

I have done a lot of adjustments within the ecu with no luck....I am currently on 93 octane for the season, due to the winter months.

 

yes I see your point. but that just shows all the injectors are same. if they all leak after shut down you might have starting issues in one car but not the next. the tunes were swapped in thiose cars as well and there was no change as well. its setup related, not tune related. at least that is what I am seeing here

is there anyone who had this hard start issue and solved it by changing the latency tables?