I'm sure Eric will confirm - I'm just going by the youtube vids...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqEFIMBumJs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdQFV-gz4zQ

 

I think that if you have all the supporting mods and you're only getting 13whp from a head that you're not using the right head

 

use your head man!!!!

 

So Ted B. recently said in a response to a question I had on head velocity (as oppsed to flow) that with a FI application like the Evo, you're going to break a water jacket before losing velocity becomes an issue.

I am no engineer...just relating what was discussed. NNo one ever mentions velocity on this forum, but apparently, FI makes that somewhat less of an issue.

 

is that due to the fact that the turbo is forcing air into the engine rather than relying on it's own ability to draw in air?

 

Well you can tell with the graph of the AMS cnc v1 and v2 heads that the v2 head had some extra material taken out of the head. It will loose velocity with that extra material taken out. I like how that car gained that much power with switching to a cnc v2 head though. But not alot of us will be seeing 46-56psi. I would venture to say that the majority of people on this site would be better off using v1 in their cars than v2. Bigger isnt always better

I still like headgames approach to how they tackle individual setups. Does everyone really need +1mm o.s. valves? Do people realize when they open up the valve sizes that they actually loose the low end feeling and the head makes the car seem slow off boost?

 

yes but to the CNC head's defense we kicked a rocker off in 4th gear when we set the current fastest ET record. Had that not of happened the Trap/mph would of been much higher.

Eric

 

LOL coulda shoulda woulda but didnt.

If I was 2" taller and 35lbs heavier I would have been playing in the nfl!

What else did you guys change on the car besides the head? Change IC pipes, IC core, Intake manifold, turbo manifold?

 

are you kidding me...

Why do people post stuff like this, it ends up going no where. Great example is AMS is in here trying to give the information they have on their heads flow numbers, results, dynos, etc and having to answer to every bench racer who thinks they know more about head design.

If you all know so much... why dont you start a company, design some head profiles, manufacturer/ sell your head design, set records, and do what AMS, Bushur, etc do.

We should be thankful to have these vendors in the market at all, muchless making such competitive product. Not questioning them like they have not proved themselves.

This is going downhill.

 

We did not change anything else.....the only real change was the head.

My point I was trying to make is to counter your point in assuming the previous headgames head yielded a higher trap speed....conditions were not even close to equal. I think it's pretty clear to see that had the rocker not kicked off in 4th the trap would of exceeded our previous best with the other head. In fact that 171mph run in question we went 128 in the 1/8th...on the 8.42 pass by the 1/8 mile mark we were going 137mph. Quite a bit faster. It's ok to compare but you have to do it against equal conditions...with that rocker popping off all bets were off for an equal comparison. I am by no means bench racing but for those looking for the better performing head its clear without a shadow of a doubt the CNC'd AMS head is far superior to that of our previous hand ported unit....I really don't even thing this can be argued. Just look at the numbers and the dyno graphs posted.


our CNC head was not made to work with a drag car only. That would be silly to do on our part. You can put this head on any evo making decent HP and see gains. Would it make 30whp on a close to stock EVO...of course not. I don't think any head would. Then again putting a head on a close to stock evo would be a waste of money as you are not really moving the CFM to warrant it.

Eric

 

+1 I don't think most people realize that the engine will perform differently depending on the way the head is ported.

 

In everyones defense, you could never really test 2 ported head and come out with the same results twice...

If someone hand ports a head, will it be EXACTLY the same as the last one they did? No, its impossible unless its done by a machine like the CNC head AMS makes. So Dave B. could potentially port a head that makes more then the AMS CNC head on time, and then on the next head he does it might not be the same yeilding slightly different results.

Now a new question. Lets say one head makes 3 more whp then the other on 2 high horsepower cars that run low 1/4 mile times. If the cars have identical setups with the exception of the head, its not going to come down to the 3 more horsepower that one car made. It's going to come down to the driver of the car.

Both companies are awesome, and do great work. /thread because we will never have any conclusive results.

 

I must admit, I pretty taken back be the way Eric has been posting... It almost pains him to admit the two of AMS records were set with Headgames heads! What's the deal with that?

Buschur, AMS and Headgames are all top notch shops that produce a quality product! My only point of differentation between their offerings is that Headgames custom taylors their work to maximize your given setup...

 

Lol you want someone to call AMS and ask them how it their head compares to Buschur?

 

It doesn't pain me at all. Their head worked GREAT. The fact the AMS CNC head performs better doesn't mean all others are bad. Nowhere in any of my posts in here did I say anything to that effect. The purpose of this thread was to show the best performing head. I posted our data from our past and current head programs to show people so they can see for themselves.

could we of stopped and never looked into the CNC head program now...sure. But why not try to make things better. The great part about this industry is our ability to advance. We could of stopped at GT35R turbo's and not even tested the GT850R or new GT950R but where is the fun in that. It's all about progression and finding new ways to make more power and improve efficiency.

I understand that you are very fond of headgames and their programs. They do a great job. They should be considered by anyone looking into a cylinder head.

FYI we never had a head games head on the drag car. I got so into our conversation that I didn't even realize the argument we were having was not even accurate...sorry for that. I even posted earlier in this thread the dyno comparing our head to the cosworth head on our drag car. Not sure where my head was when I fielded your question on the MPH set with the headgames head. Must be the fact that its friday and I am spent LOL We have always run a cosworth head. so no records were set with the headgames head. Does this mean its a bad head...hell no. It just means we never set a record with it.

In no way shape of form am I putting down a head. Our new head program came into question in this thread so I posted some data....I just hope it was useful to those interested.

Eric