We need to collect enough money to basically buy two turbo kits and a some extra turbine housings. My suggestion for turbo is a run of the mill 35R kit from Buschur and then a Full-Race twin scroll 35r kit. Full-Race and Buschur can choose the housing(s) they want tested.

I'll donate $100.

ps: I did not ask Razorlab about this, I just think he is the best and most scientific unbiased tester who has his own dyno and is a great tuner.

 

crcain, do you think TedB is a liar?


Just seriously think about that question.

Do you just not believe that TS works?

Scorke

 

I like Brian and all, but I believe the OEMs and pro racers all know what is best...I think it will be hard to judge subjective benefits (ie. transient response), but that is just my $0.02...

I believe most modern turbo applications are all twin scroll....

 

Wow goodluck getting that much money from people on here especially in this market lol.

 

I tend to agree. A dyno is a one-dimensional device, and unfortunately, it cannot draw comparisons outside of what happens at a given, static throttle position.

 

Is the OEM trying to make the most power, or minimize lag at the expense of it?

 

i dont think dyno results are going to give you a clearcut answer one way or another. the difference between single and twin scroll go beyond dyno numbers as others have already mentioned.

 

The OEM has a goal of providing enough power to make the car interesting, while having enough response on tap to sell it. All the OEM need focus on is delivering the promised 271peak bhp, and wrap it in a package that presents a complete driving experience.

It is easy as pie to make power and make things one dimensional in the process. It's been done over and over again, and anyone can do it without much thought behind it. It is not easy to make power and maintain a complete driving experience. That's where TS becomes useful, and at this point, some thinking is involved in making it work.

 

No I love Ted!

But I'd love to see a test done that shows back to back testing, that is plain to see for everyone that single scroll is a waste of time. Then AMS, Buschur, etc can all start selling them and the whole Evo community benefits. Or vice versa. Just a simple back to back test.

It's a little bit ironic, that if this test was done, everyone on this board, and all their friends would benefit well beyond a $50 or $100 donation..

Also the kits could be sold used after the test so we really only need about 20 or 30 donors.

 

I don't think Buschur or AMS is going to sell anything that they don't test themselves.

 

I've got 30 pm's in the last hour and we have currently raised $2400 so far!

Keep it coming people!

J/K this looks like a flop. Sorry for the distraction.

 

But that's just it. The best things about it that I've witnessed are things the dyno does not illustrate. You will not be able to appreciate the difference until or unless you have a way to experience it first-hand. I guess an analogy would be that one can read all the magazine articles in the world about a certain car, but he can't really know what the car truly feels like when driven for himself unless he drives one.

Even so, I can't agree that the realizations of TS' advantages necessarily renders an open housing a waste of time. I feel that depends upon the ultimate use of the car and what's available in the way of suitably sized TS housings, costs, etc. Furthermore, someone whose business depends largely upon posting drag racing results and peak power figures isn't like to openly change from something that technically 'isn't broken' unless the outcome is more or less guaranteed, and we aren't there yet.

 

Ted would you say do not illustrate, or are not FULLY illustrated by the dyno.

Scorke

 

why would you ask someone with a chassis dyno and very little data acq. to do this comparisson (only assuming that there is very little logging outside of some OEM ecu channels)...

if you really want to see the difference, i would find someone who can accurately log necessary mechanical parameters as well as oil temp, water temp, ambient temp/pressure of room, etc... to ensure that you are accurately comparing the two.

otherwise it's just not accurate.

my 1/2 cent...

-franz

 

I deliberately used "does not illustrate" because the dyno illustrates only one thing - what happens when the TP is stuck at 100%.

If someone were to calculate how much of his street driving time were spent at WOT, that would be a very small percentage. The remainder of that time, which is a huge percentage, is IMO, where TS really makes the difference. This is why I say that even if TS showed no peak power advantage, or even a slight disadvantage, I would still go for TS 100% of the time for my street driven vehicle. Average power (not peak power) is what wins races anyway.