Bad Bish Update - Turbo Comparisons
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From: Stamford Ct
Newbie
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Stamford Ct
There is a lot of activity here at Dyno Flash in the past few weeks and as spring approaches we are really begining to heat up
The Bad Bish is up and running again. George decided one day two weeks ago he was ready to get it going so he started with a $1,000 junk yard motor, dropped in some special high compression stock bore pistons, (they work really well) Manley Rods, balanced stock crank, put it all together and got the car running in 48 hours.
After a few easy break in miles, it was time last evening to hit the dyno
The only changes to the car since last year are
1 - No more Buschur Motor or head - car has stock head with valve springs now
2 - HTA35 swapped to PT62/82
3 - Car retuned by Dyno Flash
What is really interesting to me is to see how well the car is STILL running despite having a nearly totally different set up
Some things that remain on the car from last year
1 - Driven Innovations Intake Manifold
2 - Shearer T3 Gt35 Turbo manifold
3 - Buschur Race FMIC, Exhuast and Double pumper
TUNING NOTES * Removing the Buschur Head required 13% less fuel than before - even with the larger turbo so I am ASSUMING that if we put the Buschur head back on we would pick up at least 8% more power. This will be tested shortly.
Here is an intresting dyno sheet comparision
The green line is the original Bad Bish as tuned by Bushur with a Buschur motor and running the HTA35 on VP IMport at 44 psi
The Red line is the car last night - Dyno Flash/ICS motor (Lee spec) - stock head - and PT 62/82 Turbo - tuned by Dyno Flash on C16 - franly I was amazed by the power - really impressive - 40 psi of boost - we maxed out the 1200 injectors and stock regulator and now we will be adding a fuel pressure regulator. At the end you can see when the gas was lifted as the a/f is heading super lean.
The Blue is my Evo at 40 psi of boost - C16 - Buschur Engine and all Buschur Parts - tuned by Dyno Flash - HTA88/65 turbo - stock head
This comparision is super interesting as it shows the three turbos - HTA35. PT62 and HTA88 all on similar cars with similar boost. Its good to see how they spool up and where they make power.
We are going to upgrade the fuel system this week on the Bad Bish and then do some more tuning. Its a great car and has a lot of potential.
Here BTW - is my latest video - an executive from the NY Yankees stops by to play Dyno or NO Dyno with his lovely '08 Z06 vette.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3pJyb5_uaI
Al
The Bad Bish is up and running again. George decided one day two weeks ago he was ready to get it going so he started with a $1,000 junk yard motor, dropped in some special high compression stock bore pistons, (they work really well) Manley Rods, balanced stock crank, put it all together and got the car running in 48 hours.
After a few easy break in miles, it was time last evening to hit the dyno
The only changes to the car since last year are
1 - No more Buschur Motor or head - car has stock head with valve springs now
2 - HTA35 swapped to PT62/82
3 - Car retuned by Dyno Flash
What is really interesting to me is to see how well the car is STILL running despite having a nearly totally different set up
Some things that remain on the car from last year
1 - Driven Innovations Intake Manifold
2 - Shearer T3 Gt35 Turbo manifold
3 - Buschur Race FMIC, Exhuast and Double pumper
TUNING NOTES * Removing the Buschur Head required 13% less fuel than before - even with the larger turbo so I am ASSUMING that if we put the Buschur head back on we would pick up at least 8% more power. This will be tested shortly.
Here is an intresting dyno sheet comparision
The green line is the original Bad Bish as tuned by Bushur with a Buschur motor and running the HTA35 on VP IMport at 44 psi
The Red line is the car last night - Dyno Flash/ICS motor (Lee spec) - stock head - and PT 62/82 Turbo - tuned by Dyno Flash on C16 - franly I was amazed by the power - really impressive - 40 psi of boost - we maxed out the 1200 injectors and stock regulator and now we will be adding a fuel pressure regulator. At the end you can see when the gas was lifted as the a/f is heading super lean.
The Blue is my Evo at 40 psi of boost - C16 - Buschur Engine and all Buschur Parts - tuned by Dyno Flash - HTA88/65 turbo - stock head
This comparision is super interesting as it shows the three turbos - HTA35. PT62 and HTA88 all on similar cars with similar boost. Its good to see how they spool up and where they make power.
We are going to upgrade the fuel system this week on the Bad Bish and then do some more tuning. Its a great car and has a lot of potential.
Here BTW - is my latest video - an executive from the NY Yankees stops by to play Dyno or NO Dyno with his lovely '08 Z06 vette.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3pJyb5_uaI
Al
690 whp SAE Correction Previous = 747 uncorrected
765 whp SAE Correction currently = 792 uncorrected
-George Kakaletris
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From: 2003 Evo VIII - Silver
I think there is another 20 whp in there also with more tuning.
But that would have to be expected given the change from the 60mm turbo HTA35 to the 62mm PT 62/82
It would be interesting to swap on the HTA86 I have comming later this week to see what efefct that has
PS - As you know I have little use for the SAE correction on turbo charged cars running such huge boost levels. The SAE correction was not created with these kind of cars in mind. At least it is not a "Control 'X'" factor lol. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOaaG...e=channel_page
Al
Last edited by DynoFlash; Mar 29, 2009 at 02:03 PM.
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From: 2003 Evo VIII - Silver
Here is a short video I made of the tuning last evening
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/B...yno_643617.htm
PS - George wanted to go out in the rain to finsih the tune and I told him to F O! Sorry - driving in 800 whp Evos in the rain is not my idea of fun.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/B...yno_643617.htm
PS - George wanted to go out in the rain to finsih the tune and I told him to F O! Sorry - driving in 800 whp Evos in the rain is not my idea of fun.
That is not true
There was no secret when this motor had a problem, perhaps you did not follow my numerous videos on the subject?
IMHO - when you push **** to the edge you have to expect that you are going to break parts. That is just part of going very fast - period.
Also, so you know the failure had nothing to do with pump gas.
The old style JE pistons did not have enough material under the wrist pin to hold the piston together at ultra high rpms applications and the wrist pin woud eventually pull out from the bottom of the piston
The newer design Buschur / JE piston has a lot more material and is much stronger
BTW - everything looked very good inisde the original motor - all bearings perfect, no other damage.
Al
There was no secret when this motor had a problem, perhaps you did not follow my numerous videos on the subject?
IMHO - when you push **** to the edge you have to expect that you are going to break parts. That is just part of going very fast - period.
Also, so you know the failure had nothing to do with pump gas.
The old style JE pistons did not have enough material under the wrist pin to hold the piston together at ultra high rpms applications and the wrist pin woud eventually pull out from the bottom of the piston
The newer design Buschur / JE piston has a lot more material and is much stronger
BTW - everything looked very good inisde the original motor - all bearings perfect, no other damage.
Al
Did JE cover the damage?
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From: 2003 Evo VIII - Silver
After so many months, so many miles and so many races, it would be hard to fault the pistons which sustained 30 plus psi and 630 whp on pump gas for so long.
Really when you are making that kind of power and driving the **** out of the car the parts will only last so long before you either freshen up the internals or it blows up.
At the end of the day the cars making over 600 whp are running 175 crank hp per hole which is significant on a 500 cc combusion chamber.
I, personally, don't expect any warranty on any racing parts.
PS - Most of my videos start off at 20 - 30 minutes and sometimes it takes me at least a week to decide what to include and what to put in. While they seem unedited, I am actually editing them. I dont like a highly posihed look with graphics and effects. Just my own personal taste.
Al
Dyno or No Dyno is just as good as the x-factor
The old style JE pistons did not have enough material under the wrist pin to hold the piston together at ultra high rpms applications and the wrist pin woud eventually pull out from the bottom of the piston
The newer design Buschur / JE piston has a lot more material and is much stronger
Al
This really worries me... When were these JE Pistons Produced and has Buschur since then quit selling these? Are they currently selling the JE's with "more" material? Do you have any idea when Peter's Old Motor was built with these JE Pistons with less material under the wrist pin?
Also, are the BF 272 Buschur Cams still in this stock head?
Thanks! I love your videos btw and love seeing you and George go at it lol!
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Al,
This really worries me... When were these JE Pistons Produced and has Buschur since then quit selling these? Are they currently selling the JE's with "more" material? Do you have any idea when Peter's Old Motor was built with these JE Pistons with less material under the wrist pin?
Also, are the BF 272 Buschur Cams still in this stock head?
Thanks! I love your videos btw and love seeing you and George go at it lol!
This really worries me... When were these JE Pistons Produced and has Buschur since then quit selling these? Are they currently selling the JE's with "more" material? Do you have any idea when Peter's Old Motor was built with these JE Pistons with less material under the wrist pin?
Also, are the BF 272 Buschur Cams still in this stock head?
Thanks! I love your videos btw and love seeing you and George go at it lol!
I used those old pistons on my race Evo with no problems and also they were in many cars with no issues.
I think they have not run those in a couple of years.
Yes the Br272 cams are still used.
Al
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I got confused by the part about the new motor with stock head needing 13% less fuel. Yet it makes more power with less boost?
And if this was a fault with the JE pistons, why don't you post pics and stuff and inform people. Or since there is so much controversy over this car and why the engine failed, why not post pics of the pistons to show people there was no signs of det?
And if this was a fault with the JE pistons, why don't you post pics and stuff and inform people. Or since there is so much controversy over this car and why the engine failed, why not post pics of the pistons to show people there was no signs of det?
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I got confused by the part about the new motor with stock head needing 13% less fuel. Yet it makes more power with less boost?
And if this was a fault with the JE pistons, why don't you post pics and stuff and inform people. Or since there is so much controversy over this car and why the engine failed, why not post pics of the pistons to show people there was no signs of det?
And if this was a fault with the JE pistons, why don't you post pics and stuff and inform people. Or since there is so much controversy over this car and why the engine failed, why not post pics of the pistons to show people there was no signs of det?
This situation is not entirely uncommon when you rev a car to high rpms on the street over an extended period of time. For example, my STI had Ross pistons all of which came out with cracks under the wrist pins when I took it apart in October. I think that people have to understand that 9,000 and above rpms place tremendous forces on pistons and rods and that failures acan and will occur.
If you question or doubt what I am saying that is your issue and I really could care less.
Al