Honto

iTrader: (34)

Any failure that happens on public roads and results in damages, the manufacturer of the part is free and clear because that part was never designed for road use anyway.

MADBISH

iTrader: (3)

Considering this thread was for input on owning the mustache bar which then somehow got crapped on by a huge battle, I believe it's safe to say almost all of this thread is a fail.


Back on topic, If the solid bushings on the AMS kit were replaced by the buschur poly bushings would the noise/vibration level be suppressed?

FathouseFab

iTrader: (5)

Dave, any chance of some kind of exhange program if a person has a older style bar that is not cracked. I race my car quite a bit and would like to eliminate a problem before it becomes one ya know. I also run your solid side bushings on the car.

Fathouse

R/TErnie

iTrader: (32)

Not true. You CAN and WILL be held liable. Please, if you don't know what you're talking about... don't speak.

03whitegsr

iTrader: (8)

Wow...

I'm not going to get into the argument between 9sec9 and David.
BUT...

WITH OUT A DOUBT!
The factory "mustache bar" carries most, if not all of the torsional load. Anybody saying differently is ignorant.

That is not to say that the side mounts can not carry it, just that in the factory design, they do not. It's pretty simple, look at the mounts and it should be very apparent that the "mustache bar" carries all of the torsional load considering the side mounts have very little stiffness against differential rotation because of the rubber isolators. If the side mounts have to carry all the torsional load, I can guarantee, the rubber will tear and the mount will fail. Mitsubishi also accounted for this by adding large thick washers that would prevent catastrophic failure of the mount and would retain the mount in the event of a failure in the isolators.

I will try to add a slightly productive comment though. When building components that loss of life is a possibility, the part should be evaluated very carefully. I personally would be very hesitant to use 4340 chromoly (I believe that is what this mount is made of???) in any suspension component.

Yes, when welded and post treated correctly, it is stronger then mild steel allowing you to build thinner components that are lighter. Fact of the mater though, most of the time, 4340 is not welded or post processed correctly and it's no stronger then mild steel at the welds in those circumstances. All you've done is made a lighter weight part that is weaker.

Mild steel is your friend if you don't have the engineering/manufacturing resources to pull off proper part design. Out of every metal out there, mild steel is very resistant to fatigue, unlike high strength aluminum and titanium. It is much less sensitive to welding process. Heat treatment isn't nearly as critical. It's easy to work. Steel isn't pretty, but it gets the job done.

One other pointer, when doing bolted joints, using the edge of a 0.065 wall tube as a contact point is not a good idea. First off, it's questionable on strength, washers are meant to spread load and if the tube isn't bigger then the washer, you localized stress will be very high, which will cause fatigue problems. Secondly, your contact area is tiny, which means your friction is unpredictable and likely to drop low. The low friction can lead to slip between the two components because the friction between the parts often holds more load then the bolts do. Bolted connections like that should never expose the bolts to shear stresses. That's why you are interested in contact area and friction. The surfaces carry the load and the bolts ONLY provide the normal force to generate the friction, which means they don't carry shear load.

94AWDcoupe

iTrader: (125)

Some of noise would go away. But you would ad movement to your front mounts. and you no longer have a rear mount. This would be a very bad idea.

CO_VR4

iTrader: (83)

Nope. Wasn't. Still isn't. The current catalog entry says nothing about not using the part on a street car for street use.

See here: https://secure.buschurracing.com/cat...oducts_id=1092

The part is sold (and installed by Buschur in his shop) on street cars.

When the part can reasonably be expected by the manufacturer to be used on the street, no such liability restrictions apply. It's the reasonable expectations of use, (not putting a little "off road use" sticker on the part, which was not done in this case) that controls.

As noted by others, the factory part that this replaces has built in substantial cushioning to protect the part from road shock (potholes), stress and vibration. That is, in part, because the expected use on the street has to take these road conditions into consideration. Real design anticipates the full spectrum of intended use for the lifetime of the vehicle, and provides sufficient strength so the part does not fail. Otherwise, the manufacturer is responsible.

SPIN2GST

iTrader: (29)

I wouldn't recommend it.

Since you have completely removed the Mustache bar with the AMS kit, the steel bushings on the side are now handling all of the torsional load being produced. If you put the poly bushings in, you can pretty much gaurantee you'll rip the poly bushings right out of the diff.

-Karen

Ludikraut

iTrader: (17)

^ Yeah, I agree. After looking at the design of the original and how AMS redesigned it, I will no longer be looking to replace the solid bushings with poly bushings. I'll suffer with the extra noise.

l8r)

David Buschur

iTrader: (53)

covr4, check the bottom of each page on our site, everyone is labeled saying we sell primarily parts for offroad use only.

Also, at this point it is truly rediculous to continue the topic. This was a one time failure of this magnitude and as can be seen by the picture I just posted it is not possible for the two top bolts to come out through the sleeved tubing.

We all discussed this at the shop this morning and the only detail any of us remember completely is the bolt holding the side diff support being stripped and laying on the track with the torn threads still in the bolt. The bar itself was still intact at the top two mounting holes.

I think this can be layed to rest.

Jrod@Buschur

iTrader: (101)

This is what it says just so everyone is clear and there is no confusion.

"Buschur Racing sells primarily custom race parts with no warranty expressed or implied. "

David Buschur

iTrader: (53)

fathouse, sorry, missed your question. I am not going to replace a good part with a new good part, that makes no sense. Take a look under the car, if the plate is cracked I will gladly replace it. Remember though, the two top bolts go through the sleeved tubing and into the rear of the diff, even if the plating is cracked if the bolts on the sides of the diff or not stripped, it is not going to ever break like what has been pictured.

project_skyline

iTrader: (30)

How is it that there is one "failure" and so then people started saying they all failed, causing significant damage to the car and/or occupants. CO_VR4 you act as if the part is a death trap waiting to happen... David has certainly rectified the situation offering free replacements to anyone who owns the old one and it is cracked.

I like the buschur setup over the AMS one because you can replace the side mounts and instead of a bar eliminator you have a replacement. Either way both work and neither are a safety issue as none but one have failed and that was due to some install error or another.

EvoIXJDM

iTrader: (10)

I just bought the ams moustache eliminator.... but after all this tread, maybe I will buy the buschur bar, grrrr.

I think that the the Buschur bar is the better replacement than the eliminator, and I dont want to worry about my diff and for the excesive vibration.

Thanks,

AWD Motorsports

iTrader: (211)

WOW I guess I got in here late.. Ive never broken 1 and i have the Quickest of all the cars running them.. RAce parts fail sometimes.. Dave stands behind any that break so thats all that matters to me.. You wont know their is an issue until you break them, thats why there are revisions on parts..

Just like the Indy Manifold that blew out the plugs on the side for Suman... After that they started welding them.. So lets no forget NOBODY is perfect!!!

Mike