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At the current price point, comparing new to new, I can't fathom why anyone would buy the Red over the Black.
Edit: I suppose if someone was REALLY **** about spool, they may put more stock in the 200 RPM of spool difference than I would.
Unless i missed testing in the 12 pages that showed what it makes at 20psi and what at 25 and 30 there is plenty of market for a red.. Whos running 40psi on a stock motor with a black?? Not any of my customers.. Originally Posted by 2highpsi
Will they benefit from the red? Sure. But they would further benefit from the Black right? At the current price point, comparing new to new, I can't fathom why anyone would buy the Red over the Black.
Edit: I suppose if someone was REALLY **** about spool, they may put more stock in the 200 RPM of spool difference than I would.
Just like the green vs the red.. The red starts to show HP pickup at 25psi or so where the green makes great power at 20psi.. The black might not make lb for lb more power at 20-25psi where a guy with stock motor wants to be at.. also the black is laggier.. so i believe unless testing proves otherwise that there will be a market for the red if your not looking to make 500-600+ dynojet HP..
Mike
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Where are you running it?
www.dragway42.comOriginally Posted by 2highpsi
Good luck manWhere are you running it?
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Good Luck! Keep us posted.Originally Posted by StreetThisEvo
Let's wait till this sunday. So far weather looks good.
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Don't forget that the 40whp power difference occurs when both turbo's are MAXED OUT. I wouldn't be surprised if the power difference at, say 30psi, pump gas, is 20-30 whp.
To sum it up, if you run your car as a DD on 93 oct and 30 psi, don't be surprised if you see abt 20-30whp gain and 300rpm slower spool going from the red to the black.
IMO, if you are in for a new turbo, the fp black is a good option (if you don't mind the extra lag), but if you already have the fp red, it's not worth the upgrade.
It seems like the term lag is a little over used. I mean if we are talking about 500+rpms then thats one thing but 100-250 rpms isn't going to be noticeable......but 20-30 HP (if thats the gap) WOULD be noticeable.Originally Posted by darwin_evo
The spool is not the same. It's true that in the graph shown in the 1st page the spool difference is abt only 100rpm, but we learned later that the fp black run was done in 4th gear, whereas the fp red run was done in 3rd gear. That is worth abt 200rpm. Accordingly, a more accurate statement would be that the spool difference is abt 250-300 rpm between these turbo's.Don't forget that the 40whp power difference occurs when both turbo's are MAXED OUT. I wouldn't be surprised if the power difference at, say 30psi, pump gas, is 20-30 whp.
To sum it up, if you run your car as a DD on 93 oct and 30 psi, don't be surprised if you see abt 20-30whp gain and 300rpm slower spool going from the red to the black.
IMO, if you are in for a new turbo, the fp black is a good option (if you don't mind the extra lag), but if you already have the fp red, it's not worth the upgrade.
If I could get a red or Green for cheap because of the rush for Black then I wouldn't be mad. LOL.
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Pretty sure the Green hasn't sold for beans since the Red came out, people here aren't interested in making "less" power. Same thing will happen now to the Red. Of course this is just what I think.
Black looks to be a nice unit though.
Black looks to be a nice unit though.
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Don't forget that the 40whp power difference occurs when both turbo's are MAXED OUT. I wouldn't be surprised if the power difference at, say 30psi, pump gas, is 20-30 whp.
To sum it up, if you run your car as a DD on 93 oct and 30 psi, don't be surprised if you see abt 20-30whp gain and 300rpm slower spool going from the red to the black.
IMO, if you are in for a new turbo, the fp black is a good option (if you don't mind the extra lag), but if you already have the fp red, it's not worth the upgrade.
The runs were also done three months apart. prolly 15 degree cooler weather for the black. That would improve spool as well. Already stated this is not the best back to back to be banking on. but its the best currently available.Originally Posted by darwin_evo
The spool is not the same. It's true that in the graph shown in the 1st page the spool difference is abt only 100rpm, but we learned later that the fp black run was done in 4th gear, whereas the fp red run was done in 3rd gear. That is worth abt 200rpm. Accordingly, a more accurate statement would be that the spool difference is abt 250-300 rpm between these turbo's.Don't forget that the 40whp power difference occurs when both turbo's are MAXED OUT. I wouldn't be surprised if the power difference at, say 30psi, pump gas, is 20-30 whp.
To sum it up, if you run your car as a DD on 93 oct and 30 psi, don't be surprised if you see abt 20-30whp gain and 300rpm slower spool going from the red to the black.
IMO, if you are in for a new turbo, the fp black is a good option (if you don't mind the extra lag), but if you already have the fp red, it's not worth the upgrade.
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Black looks to be a nice unit though.
Well IMO FP limited the black when they decided to keep the same turbine wheel as the Red... Why they did this I don't know, prob to help keep spool low but it will hurt the Black's topend. Like R/TErnie stated, the red and the blacks graph will meet up by 8k. The turbines the reason for that. So yes the black will make more peak power but will start to die off and cross the path of the Red in higher rpms. So I don't think the black will make much more topend than the red. Say from 7.5-8.5k. This is because FP decided to keep the same turbine wheel. I do believe that if someone ported the **** out of the turbine housing/hotside and extrude honed it, it may help the black out perform the red in higher rpms. just my .02Originally Posted by jid2
Pretty sure the Green hasn't sold for beans since the Red came out, people here aren't interested in making "less" power. Same thing will happen now to the Red. Of course this is just what I think.Black looks to be a nice unit though.
If the Black is more efficient then it will make more power across the board on once the boost comes on.
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You and I both buddy
Heads never been off the car. Buschur Racing ported my Red since I ordered it through them.Originally Posted by BLKCarbonEVO
Are you running stock head with just cams or is it ported and angle/oversize valved etc....? Also is your turbo ported? You and I both buddy
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You may be right, then again you may be wrong. Will see...Originally Posted by 06MREvo
You won't do it...looking forward to seeing this...might as well bolt on a black...
At this point it seems as if the Red no longer has it's own nitch in the FP lineup as the black is clearly superior with such little difference in spool it most likely will not be noticed by any owner's butt dyno.
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There is no doubt that the compressor housing on the Black is more efficient than the Red but the problem is the Turbine wheel. It doesn't matter how efficient the compressor housing/wheel is if it still has to squeeze through the smaller turbine wheel. It is like sucking in, then putting a straw in your mouth, then trying to blow all the air out the straw. It's hard to do! Yes breathing in was easy but blowing it back out was not. This is the type of choke point that the Red turbine wheel created for the Black... Originally Posted by High_PSI
If the Black is more efficient then it will make more power across the board on once the boost comes on.
I know that Robert and Scott are both looking at this thread so could one of you please voice some opinion on this matter?
But like I stated in my post above, Robert may have designed the Black to create more peak power and retain as much spool as possible.
This would be the reason for keeping the Red Turbine wheel, though the Black will suffer out the top... Mikey
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40psi to make low 500whp???? I'm good on that, it would be less stress on the engine to just have a larger turbo; yes the spool is great, but I would rather just shift
ok, i see why people would be up for this for a street car, but for a track drag race turbo..please
ok, i see why people would be up for this for a street car, but for a track drag race turbo..please
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the red still has its fans
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sounds like a great turbo , just not the best street turbo it seems for me...maybe ill find a red cheap!
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ok, i see why people would be up for this for a street car, but for a track drag race turbo..please
The FP stock appearing turbo line up has always been marketed towards the average Joe street car guy.Originally Posted by MOREPSiTEHBETT4
40psi to make low 500whp???? I'm good on that, it would be less stress on the engine to just have a larger turbo; yes the spool is great, but I would rather just shiftok, i see why people would be up for this for a street car, but for a track drag race turbo..please
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ok, i see why people would be up for this for a street car, but for a track drag race turbo..please
Thats 500+ on a MD. That well into the 600s on a DJ Originally Posted by MOREPSiTEHBETT4
40psi to make low 500whp???? I'm good on that, it would be less stress on the engine to just have a larger turbo; yes the spool is great, but I would rather just shiftok, i see why people would be up for this for a street car, but for a track drag race turbo..please
