I know, just like a cat back for a F50 is 12,000 lol.

 

Jesus thats amazing- If I won the lottery I would be forced to have muffler shop Bubba fab a catback for my F 50

 

Theres alot more to how exhaust flows than it just being bent pipings. Some companies can provided lots of figure ratings to back up their developments over the competition,

 

Oh I totally agree bro but theres only so many price inhibitive items such as FIT quality of materials and customer support

 

Go to the dealer and get a price for a stock downpipe. Now the 3" mandrel bent pipe is not so expensive. I bet the stock on is a good $250 to buy.
On another note, it is not so easy to make it just from the seld stand point. Look at most of them out there and the welding job is top notch! Any idea what a good welder gets paid?

Oh and you forgot a good metal bandsaw for cutting the pipes.

 

Hmmm... I the world of mass produced exhaust systems, domestic application manderal bent tubing costs 1/3 of what import application manderal bent tubing costs. I'm not seeing the extra R&D, just a consumer *** ****ing...

 

Finally another Texan of course familiar with the amout of loot a domestic guy gets for 1K

 

I yield to Zeus b/c he's absolutely right. ANd, "don't mess with Texas"

 

...facts are facts though. Funny how you can get a set of V8 hooker headers (twice the bends) for $300 or less, and a 4 banger turbo manifold rapes the cunsumer for $600-$1000. Should be a felony offense... I mean, it is when you ****** a stranger and drag them around back to do it...

 

The R&D necessary to make a piece that works well is quite substantial and it is VERY tight in the EVO to get a full 3 inch mandrel bent piece through there. I went through 2 designs to create a downpipe that works well and fits well on the EVO and it does have a LOT of slight bends in it to clear certain things. Some things are more expensive in the import world but sometimes that is because you are paying for a beautifully finished Japanese part that is well designed and not just some header that is MIG welded together and has no R&D time at all.

 

While I agree we're getting *** rammed, I don't think it's purely because of greed on the behalf of the tuners producing these parts. While I'm sure these guys have plenty of spare cash to buy their toys, I don't think we're buying any Carribean islands for them to retire on.

To state the obvious: There are less than 5000 Evos in the US. Economies of scale and market supply and demand are clearly at play. While the Evo isn't exotic, it's really not fair to compare parts produced for american V8s with those produced for the Evo. How many headers does Hooker or MSDS crank out in a day versus David Buschur's team? I bet it's on the order of 1000 to 1. Let's not even get into the mass production techniques Hooker uses versus jigged and weld techniques he probably employs.

Just my $0.02...

 

Wow.

I hate seeing posts like these. I don't want them deleted or anything, just hate seeing it.

I agree with some of it. I have more than a few domestic cars myself. Some of the stuff is priced SO low that there is no way in hell I will consider doing it myself, and I have the talent and facilities to do it. On the other hand, for instance, I have a Formula. The cat back exhaust for it cost me over $650. Our cat back is $450 for the EVO. The only difference was an extra tail pipe for the dual exhausts. In this case there price difference is really zero.

What you will find is the majority of domestic parts are not the same quality as we have to build for the import market. The largest majority of domestic exhausts are made of mild steel. Import guys won't even look at buying that crap. I have a Summit catalog open right now. A mild steel exhaust for a 94-96 Impala is $443.95. This is all made of mild steel. 2001-02 PT Cruiser, mild steel, twin tip, $349, 86-93 Mustang, Hooker, aluminized cat back, $299.95.

You get the idea. We have a 2.5" aluminized cat back for the 1g DMS's, we sell them for $285, difference is we still use a stainless steel muffler and polished 4" SS tip on it.

Anyway, we aren't all out here trying to rip you guys off. WE really do try and keep our costs down. There is a big difference between companies like Hooker, Flowmaster and such and ourselves though.

The large exhaust companies like them have in house mandrel benders, build the prototypes in house, buy huge truck loads of tubing, build there own hangers, have their own in house welders and build who knows how many hundreds of systems at a time. Add to this alot of the factories are in Mexico, China and other 3rd world low labor cost countries and it is hard to beat.

We build the prototypes in house. Then we ship that piece off to the bender. We will order a minimum of 15 units at a time and as many as 50. Not super huge numbers by any means. Our bender orders a truck load up tube which he marks up to us, then bends it which he marks up to pay his over head and men. We then either have the order shipped back to us or take a day to drive up and get it and return. From there they are unloaded, put in the fixture, marked and then taken back out and cut. We then have to de-burr each part and put it on the rack. As needed they are then pulled off and put back in the fixture to be final welded. The mufflers are about the same story along with tips and some of the special hangers. We also have to draw the flanges that are needed, pay to have them put into a CAD drawing and laser cut. Ship or pick up and such too. As you can see there is alot that goes into it. All or most of the import specialty shops are in the same boat as we are. Low numbers of production, jobbing out some or all of the work, middle men getting a piece of everything before you get to it.

We charge $300 for a mandrel bent stainless steel downpipe with laser cut 3/8" thick flanges and 1/8" thick stainless steel hangers. The entire EVO system is TIG welded, not a quicky mild steel MIG weld that anyone can do. The downpipe also has the option of deleting the cat and that piece is thrown in with the purchase of the downpipe if you want it instead of the high flow cat. Also included are the bolts and the stainless steel .400 thick spacers we have to have made for the lower tie bars.

I think we are reasonable at $300 for this piece. I know we offer the largest TRUE diameter downpipe with the lightest weight and best materials out there for that money.

We do our best to keep the costs down and from where I am sitting I think we do a decent job of it.

Hope this helps you guys understand and maybe see why you should be giving us a call for you parts.

Thanks alot,

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com

 

Wow good post Buschur!

 

I was not going to pipe up one way or another, but when someone like David Buschur comes on the board and offers an explanation, I think that it says a lot about the company and the man himself. It is nice to see that a vendor answers a question or observation in a calm, concise, and reasonable manner that just happens to make sence at the same time.

 

Don't think for a second I was referring to David... and of course there is merit to both your and Dan's arguments, just not to the tune of three to four times the cost. I'd say this was especially so in the realm of catbacks, as the Evolution is probably one of the easiest ones to plumb. I used the header vs. manifold as just an example, poor and extreme as it was... It is funny that the vendors and their affiliates seem to be the majority in disagreement. Matter of course, yet funny... Coming from aerospace, I'm well aware of the costs of tooling and R&D. However, you show me a huge R&D budget on the Evo catback exhaust, and I'll show you where you can trim some serious fat in your company. With that out of the way, tooling is the next issue. Most who are involved will farm out the bends, as it is not cost effective to purchase the tooling for relatively low volume parts. However, many already do the welding in house... no additional tool costs less in-house made jigs. Materials are somewhat of a constant. Materials, out of house bending, jigs... it has already surpassed domestic pricing due to the low volume and out of house work, but by how much?

Now back to the original issue. Downpipes. On the Evolution, it is easy to see how that piece could be more expensive as to the number of bends, and how close they are to each other. Again, I ask, to what extent? Anything too much over $300 seems to be robbery since you have little in house time vs. cost of out of house bends. Depending on design, you have one or two flanges and a hanger to weld. That is unless your one of those few piecing the whole thing together, which seems very cost prohibitive in labor alone.

For the record, I was typing this up when David was posting his more through response... I've stated before, and still believe Buschur is the best, most respectable game in town. His pricing is more inline with what things should be in my opinion.