Ok thanks. so now in regards to the rod, i will have it done by R&R or Oliver most likely unless you have another good recommendation. How much impact on the rod weight will effect the ability of the engine to survive at high power levels? This is the part that scares me.

There are really light weight rods, but can they withstand the abuse of the what im trying to make power wise? I read that billet is weaker then steel, but billet is so much lighter.

for example say a R&R/Oliver billet i beam rod vs a turbo tuff manley i-beam steel rod. would the R&R stack up against the steel in strength ability? the weight of the turbo tuff's are super heavy.

thanks for answering all my questions. i appreciate it a lot!

 

It's easy to make a strong rod, and it's easy to make a lightweight rod. To design a rod that is both strong and lightweight is neither easy nor cheap. My 156mm Oliver I-beams are about 605g, while the Manley TT are about 690g.

Most rods are forgings, which means the metal is forged into the general shape, and the final rod is machined from the forged blank. Oliver is a machined billet rod, whereby each rod is CNC machined from a single steel billet. This is more expensive, but unlike a forged rod, the metal grain pattern is consistent throughout the rod. R&R's website claims their rods are also CNC billet machined. And finally, US made and certified H4340 double remelt virgin steel guarantees consistent Rc hardness and strength throughout, which is not the case with the cheap Chinese parts.

So given your setup, it's always advantageous to reduce centrifugal loading by reducing component weight, so long as adequate strength can be maintained. It costs a little more, but better parts always do.

 

ok thanks Ted.

 

I decided to go with custom R&R billet steel i-beams in 159mm length. (They claim they are stronger then Oliver also). whether that's true i don't know, but im sure they are more then strong enough for what i need them to do.

thanks again for the feedback Ted.

 

Have any of you considered running a larger exhaust valve and cam verses the inlet valve / cam.

On a high reving destroked 4g64 evo head combo it makes sense. The heads can flow plenty if done right.
I would think reducing cylinder pressure when running any type of alcohol would be number 1 on the list.
The components are all good but only if the head is built for the type of fuel the engine is running.

 

This is venturing off topic, but flow data from multiple sources reveals the int/exh flow balance already tends to bias mildly toward the exhaust side as is, so improving the exhaust side alone isn't a good strategy. Furthermore, the ports and bowls are the primary restrictions, not the valve sizes. Simply installing larger valves can actually reduce flow. It's a bit like trying to get greater flow from a wine bottle by increasing the size of the cork instead of enlarging the neck.

Secondly, alcohol carries a relatively octane rating, and withstands cylinder pressures that are not possible with street gasoline. Reducing either static or dynamic compression with alcohol is going in the wrong direction.

 

Bringing this back for updates. What powers, rev limits, and miles do these builds last?

 

There was never a 96mm crank made. ER played with a different stroke that K1 made, but it's somewhat classified (it made a ~2.3 in a 4g64). A 94mm crank in the 4g64 with 156mm or 159mm rods is good route. I'm doing 94/156 in 4g64, custom ER spec Wiseco pistons, shelf Carillo rods, and Eagle forged crank.

 

I'm starting to lean towards the same combo except with 4G63.

 

Sean will jump in possibly before I press send but if you're using a 63 block 153mm rods is preferred over the 156mm ones.

 

because of piston rings?

 

Does anyone know if California's smog police check block IDs?

 

If using a 63 block, you need to use 150mm or 153mm rods. The piston's compression distance gets to short with a 94mm crank and 156mm rod in a 63 block.

 

I believe Norris Designs has a 97mm Crank that they offer, however I have never heard anything about how it works or a build with it. My guess is that it may be used in a time attack car they have built. I can give the link to the product page if you all want.

 

I think 92mm to 94mm are best for longevity.
​​​​​​​I've read about references to K1 crankshafts being one of the best quality but have not seen a price on them on any site. I see Eagle cranks at under $700 at multiple site. And I know to stay away from Manley cranks
Anything else?