I appreciate that sir.

I will concede that with the MBC out of the loop the 17psi spike to 23psi at redline is boost creep. However, you have to understand that our product is not intended to eliminate boost creep altogether, rather it is intended to reduce creep to manageable levels (in my opinion 23psi is pretty manageable).

My question for you is this: With the MBC removed the maximum boost pressure was 23psi, why was it not able to hold 23psi to redline with the MBC installed? The MBC had to be limiting the boost pressure to the WGA otherwise it would have acted exactly the same as it did without the MBC in the system correct? I wish I could have been there to do some troubleshooting at the time, but I have a suspicion that there was another factor creating the issue. However, there were no changes to the tuning or the MBC when the Megan was reinstalled and that rectified the issue?

Additionally, I mentioned above that I'm running our 3" O2 eliminator on my personal car, for my own personal sanity I threw it on the dyno over the weekend and I was able to run 18psi to redline. There are a lot of factors that contribute to boost creep as you mentioned above, we have to be sure to explore all of the possibilities before making an assumption as to what is causing it...

 

Most likely yes, the same Forge MBC that is on my car now.

My other option which Ive considered is switch over to an AEM Tru-Boost. My current gauge is maxed out because it only reads to 30psi and Im boosting just at 30psi now on the stock turbo, and I plan on running a bit over 30psi with the Red. Im not sure I want to spend over $400 though on that, between getting the gauge itself and then that upgrade that allows the gauge to read past 29psi. Id rather spend that money elsewhere.

 

Lets just say me being around Eric and Aaron; things are starting to rub off

Mikey

 

Not trying to fight match, I just don't agree with your statement above.

So you agree that your product doesn't eliminate boost creep? Also I would not call boost creeping 6psi "manageable levels". Sure 23psi on pump is ok but it is the creep we are looking at... I would be willing to say that 60% of the FP Red/Black owners are on pump and creeping 6psi is not ideal when tuning for a solid pump tune. Do you think it is?

For example: If you are tuning pump at 26psi I would eliminate the BC and run straight wastegate and see what you spike and hold out the top. Then start to preload the wastegate till you get a spike to 23psi. (That way the wastegate is preloaded so it will help hold more boost out the top). Now you can hook the BC back up and increase your DC slowly till you spike 26psi. Setting up your car like this is how you get a solid boost curve that holds to redline. If you have a "dump" that creates 6+psi of boost creep you can not do that! No tuner likes to play with boost creep!!! Some people may argue that boost creep helps hold more boost out the top so they don't mind it. I for one, would never want boost creep.

We cann't argue that the mbc was the problem. No, it wouldn't have acted the same because the mbc is trying to keep the wastegate shut till 23psi. Then it opens and boost creep begins. There is a lot more built up pressure in the turbine housing at 23psi than at the 17psi wastegate pressure. You also have to remember that when running the straight wastegate (no bc) the wastegate will begin to open prematurely. In order to spike 17psi the wastegate was starting to open way before 17psi. Just because it didn't creep over 23psi on the wastegate doesn't mean that it would not creep over 25psi with the mbc installed.

Their could have been a number of things that could have contributed to the boost creep. No, when the Megan was installed their was no changes to the tune, we started on straight wastegate, and no their was no boost creep after the spike. If I remember right the spike was actually 16psi... The reason I "assessed" that the dump was out problem.

I completely agree with that statement!

Was that 18psi spike holding 18psi to redline? Since you were on the dyno can you please post your graphs?

Thanks for chatting Chris,
Mikey

 

Mikey,

I see where you're coming from in regards to additional backpressure with a higher initial boost spike, but it appears that you feel the relationship between the additional backpressure and amount of boost creep is a linear relationship, that is where I disagree. I don't feel that 6psi creep from 17 to 23psi will translate to a 6psi creep from say 26psi to 32psi. To actually test this, however, would be a very involved process lol.

All I know is that our product works flawlessly on my personal car, and on tens if not hundreds of our customer's cars. The particular scenario you have outlined above does have me stumped, but I'm still going to hold my belief that the 3D contoured flange makes little to no difference in regards to reducing boost creep.

 

Chris, I didn't say that the 3D flange/turbine discharge pipe was the reason for reducing boost creep. I stated that it "reduces the packpressure post exducer allowing the turbine wheel to spin more freely, flow at a higher rate, and will improve spool."

The creep is clearly the wastgate side and nothing dealing with the turbine or the 3D turbine discharge pipe. Now having a wastegate dump tube to small will indeed be a factor in the boost creep. I have already stated the problems that lead to boost creep. Transition, flow, and wastegate preload is the key things that can help or increase boost creep!

Mikey

 

im on a EPM dump, fp black on pump gas and i dont have 1psi of creep

 

It seems like theres way to many inconsistencies within the o2 housing community. Some people get creep with X housing, others dont. Theres been no clear cut answer to this.

 

Come back to me for a moment here guys!

The record setters running the FP Red, the guys who are in the 9's, like 9sec9 and okix...what o2 were they using??

 

Most-Wanted was using a EPM 02 dump, Okix and 9sec9 dont remember but with the FPBlack they used the MAP 02 downpipe with the 38mm Wastegate.

 

intresting read, im currently on the market for a o2 housing and i think im leaning toward the o2 dump.

would be nice to see a test tho

 

This.



It's simple air flow dynamics Physics. (AP Physics in HS here ) There will obviously be gains.


FP Red + Shearer O2 dump YouTube Dyno video in signature. For those of you who don't like the dump sound, man up - it's something you get used to and who cares about it smelling a little, grab some of that carbon smell and splash it on.

 

I dont care about the volume of the noise generated from the dump pipe, its the pitch. Its so buzzy, it sounds like shat.

Its not as easy as relying on "simple physics" if there has never been a 100% true answer to this. If 1 person gets creep with hosuing A which has a larger opening and theyre making 500whp on 30psi, and another person making 550whp with 33psi with housing B, which has a smaller opening doesnt get creep in their setup, somethings up. IF tuner A says dumps do nothing, tuner B says they do, physics should be able to settle it for sure, but it doesnt.

 

Less restriction removes unwanted back pressure and allows that turbine to spin and create boost faster than a restricted O2 housing. It's really that simple. No one has done a dyno test, but I can guarantee my next paycheck a proper back to back testing on a quality O2 unit, there will be gains.

It's simple Physics.

 

Ahhh, interesting. So the dump that 50% of the community loved and swore by and the other 50% said it was absolute junk, was used on a car in the 9's.

Anyone know about okix and 9sec9 on their record runs with the Red?

I said this once before and Ill say it again, Im going to make a dump out of hi-temp silicone and ceramic coated legos and see how that goes, because there is absolutely NO logic to these o2 housings.