Twin Scroll Turbos?? Monster Spool.. FACT or FICTION???
May 2, 2010, 06:40 PM
#92
so you are saying there will never be a conclusive test? what kind of test do you suggest?That comparison is the best I can find, the car with the Full-Race kit should be way better. The other car is running less boost and cams that hurt spool.
how about this one: yes it is impressive that the turbo with T4 1.06 AR spools really close to the .63 AR Tial. But the TS kit is choking a little up top.
I have a sponsorship for a Twin Scroll setup for my Suby, I just want to make sure that it is the right decision
.This test was done on two separate cars but with the same mods minus the header and turbo kit they were running. So while not apples to apples its a really close comparison.
Both cars had Perrin FMIC, 3" Turbo back exhaust, 850cc injectors, fuel rails, with stock heads and cams.
Both cars tested were also run on Shell 93oct and boost for both runs was kept the same at 21psi.
Run #41 was with Full-Race's full twin scroll turbo kit. Running the HTA35r, t4 turbine 1.06ar housing . This twin scroll kit does seem to spool up a bit faster but on the street the differences are less noticeable. We also noticed that with the FR kit the power started to fall off pretty good above 6k rpms. Our best guess is that the power loss up top is caused by the small primaries in the full race header.
Overall we were expecting huge things from this kit but feel a little let down. Power aside the fitment of this turbo kit required major work to get it to clear both the firewall and frame rails.
Run #09 was a standard GT35 rotated turbo kit with a tial V-band .63ar turbine housing. It shows to spool a tad bit slower but there is no power loss in the upper rpms. This turbo kit was a one off built for a customer as he wanted an exact copy of what we have run all year in our time attack car.
AMS however has just released their rotated turbo kits running the tial v-band housings. We are hoping to now use the AMS kit instead of building the one offs we had in the past. I would expect AMS's new turbo kit to perform very similar as the ones we built, but with that rock hard AMS reliability and warranty. Here shortly I will have an AMS turbo kit for testing and will be installing it on my personal 08sti. I will start a new thread with pictures and dyno results when I do so.
Douglas Wilks
TopSpeed Inc.
Both cars had Perrin FMIC, 3" Turbo back exhaust, 850cc injectors, fuel rails, with stock heads and cams.
Both cars tested were also run on Shell 93oct and boost for both runs was kept the same at 21psi.
Run #41 was with Full-Race's full twin scroll turbo kit. Running the HTA35r, t4 turbine 1.06ar housing . This twin scroll kit does seem to spool up a bit faster but on the street the differences are less noticeable. We also noticed that with the FR kit the power started to fall off pretty good above 6k rpms. Our best guess is that the power loss up top is caused by the small primaries in the full race header.
Overall we were expecting huge things from this kit but feel a little let down. Power aside the fitment of this turbo kit required major work to get it to clear both the firewall and frame rails.
Run #09 was a standard GT35 rotated turbo kit with a tial V-band .63ar turbine housing. It shows to spool a tad bit slower but there is no power loss in the upper rpms. This turbo kit was a one off built for a customer as he wanted an exact copy of what we have run all year in our time attack car.
AMS however has just released their rotated turbo kits running the tial v-band housings. We are hoping to now use the AMS kit instead of building the one offs we had in the past. I would expect AMS's new turbo kit to perform very similar as the ones we built, but with that rock hard AMS reliability and warranty. Here shortly I will have an AMS turbo kit for testing and will be installing it on my personal 08sti. I will start a new thread with pictures and dyno results when I do so.
Douglas Wilks
TopSpeed Inc.
Last edited by juanmedina; May 2, 2010 at 06:43 PM.
May 2, 2010, 06:40 PM
#93
Obviously, the 1.06 A/R T4 for that turbo is a larger housing than a 1.06 A/R T3. For a turbo with the power capacity of the HTA3586, it wouldn't really make much sense to use a divided T3. On the other hand, if you haven't seen what Drifto's car does with an HTA3076R and 1.06 A/R divided T3, that's a different story.
Basically, it's about matching the turbo and power expectations to the turbine housing. A 1.06 A/R divided T3 is probably suitable for 600whp tops. We've seen 750+ with divided 1.06 A/R T4s.
May 2, 2010, 06:45 PM
#94
For a test to give reliable results, it really must be the same car.
May 2, 2010, 06:57 PM
#95
You could use the same ts t4 manifold for both tests and just do a open t4 smaller a/r. Using the 0.6:1 ratio for SS:TS would equal a .68 t4 as the closest match. There are tons of turbo you could get both turbines to fit on with the same outlet flange and location of all parts. The only change would be the turbine housing. It doesnt matter what the turbo is as the comparo would be between the same turbo with the turbine housing as the only variable.
May 2, 2010, 06:59 PM
#96
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I am not one of those smart TS guys but I have a T4 TS HTA 3586 that I plan on putting on in the next few weeks. It has the 1.00 hotside, Jason (bigric09) has a T3 TS HTA 3586 with a 1.06 hotside on it now and we have very similar builds. We want to see how they do back to back but we also realize that they are 2 different cars so it will never be an exact comparison.
Josh
Josh
May 2, 2010, 07:08 PM
#98
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Josh
May 2, 2010, 08:10 PM
#99
so you are saying there will never be a conclusive test? what kind of test do you suggest?That comparison is the best I can find, the car with the Full-Race kit should be way better. The other car is running less boost and cams that hurt spool.
how about this one: yes it is impressive that the turbo with T4 1.06 AR spools really close to the .63 AR Tial. But the TS kit is choking a little up top.
I have a sponsorship for a Twin Scroll setup for my Suby, I just want to make sure that it is the right decision
.
May 2, 2010, 08:27 PM
#100
Obviously, the 1.06 A/R T4 for that turbo is a larger housing than a 1.06 A/R T3. For a turbo with the power capacity of the HTA3586, it wouldn't really make much sense to use a divided T3. On the other hand, if you haven't seen what Drifto's car does with an HTA3076R and 1.06 A/R divided T3, that's a different story.
Basically, it's about matching the turbo and power expectations to the turbine housing. A 1.06 A/R divided T3 is probably suitable for 600whp tops. We've seen 750+ with divided 1.06 A/R T4s.
Basically, it's about matching the turbo and power expectations to the turbine housing. A 1.06 A/R divided T3 is probably suitable for 600whp tops. We've seen 750+ with divided 1.06 A/R T4s.
I think I have made my decision, now just to find someone who can do it for me.
May 2, 2010, 08:31 PM
#101
I could see a 1.06 divided T3 for maybe a GT35R used with pump fuel only. Anything larger or where >600whp is desired is really T4 territory where divided housings are concerned.
