Mikey's LR2.4 MIVEC 10:1 Motor Build
I've put some thought into this as well, and naturally, there are always tradeoffs. My cams are 272 deg adv duration, 222 @ 1mm, with 12.3mm lift. On paper that looks more like a WRC cam, and definitely not tailored for all-out high rpm power. If we look at the basic ramp rates for some popular cams without taking lift into account, we get this:
Basic ramp rates (smaller = more aggressive)
HKS 280: 280-222 = 58
My cams: 272-222 = 50
Kelford 280: 280-238 = 48
GSC S3: 280-238 = 48
Kelford 272: 272-226 = 46
Tomei 270: 270-227 = 43
GSC S2: 274-232 = 42
BF272: XXX-XXX =
Your cams: 274-236 = 38
JUN 272: 272-235 = 37
Of course, this doesn't tell the whole story. The ramps of my cams appear only moderately aggressive at a glance, but the difference is lift. My setup however is a 2.0L with a 8.6 SCR, a R/S ratio of 1.77, and won't be as forgiving to a long duration camshaft as your 2.4L, 10:1, 1.56 R/S motor.
My valvetrain that requires a lot of torque to turn over, requires a stiff spring set to control valve action (harder on valves and seats), and definitely creates piston/valve clearance concerns. Keep these things in mind if you're going to go steeper on the ramps. But conversely, keep in mind that aggressive ramps tend to make long duration cams more civilized, but without sacrificing the power potential that comes with it.
Also, I can't help but wonder if the hydraulic lifter valvetrain is really able to keep up without some bleed, but I have know way of knowing. I keep thinking about how hard it is to turn over these cams, Kiggly's 15psi at the lifters, and how my 'non-ticking' lifters damn sure tick with my valvetrain.
There is a point whereby a more aggressive ramp creates more problems than it solves. I don't know the lift of your cams, but looks to me like you're already in very steep territory. And where the head is concerned, my opinion with these heads is that if you've hit water, you're making progress.
My logic is sourced here:
Testing vs. Buschur ported stock w/E85
The results were rather impressive. An increase in power of 5% over a ported stocker, on E85, with at less indicated resistance (boost) results from reduced turbine side pressure and a lower PR across the compressor. It's like having one's cake and eating it too. Is it cheap? No, but neither is anything we're discussing here. What's it worth to possibly achieve 630whp at less boost than what it would ordinarily require to get 600whp? That's a calculated decision, and you already know mine.
For a standard block, I'd stick with 150mm. For a 4G64 block with its 6mm additional deck height, I'd stick with 156mm. Further lengthening the rod (e.g. 159mm) won't make a discernible difference on the dyno vs. 156mm, but the negative impact that results from the reduced compression height raises a whole 'nother can of worms.
What's a 'whole nother' anyway? Is there a such thing as a 'half nother'? Never did get that one ...
Basic ramp rates (smaller = more aggressive)
HKS 280: 280-222 = 58
My cams: 272-222 = 50
Kelford 280: 280-238 = 48
GSC S3: 280-238 = 48
Kelford 272: 272-226 = 46
Tomei 270: 270-227 = 43
GSC S2: 274-232 = 42
BF272: XXX-XXX =
Your cams: 274-236 = 38
JUN 272: 272-235 = 37
Of course, this doesn't tell the whole story. The ramps of my cams appear only moderately aggressive at a glance, but the difference is lift. My setup however is a 2.0L with a 8.6 SCR, a R/S ratio of 1.77, and won't be as forgiving to a long duration camshaft as your 2.4L, 10:1, 1.56 R/S motor.
My valvetrain that requires a lot of torque to turn over, requires a stiff spring set to control valve action (harder on valves and seats), and definitely creates piston/valve clearance concerns. Keep these things in mind if you're going to go steeper on the ramps. But conversely, keep in mind that aggressive ramps tend to make long duration cams more civilized, but without sacrificing the power potential that comes with it.
Also, I can't help but wonder if the hydraulic lifter valvetrain is really able to keep up without some bleed, but I have know way of knowing. I keep thinking about how hard it is to turn over these cams, Kiggly's 15psi at the lifters, and how my 'non-ticking' lifters damn sure tick with my valvetrain.
There is a point whereby a more aggressive ramp creates more problems than it solves. I don't know the lift of your cams, but looks to me like you're already in very steep territory. And where the head is concerned, my opinion with these heads is that if you've hit water, you're making progress.
My logic is sourced here:
Testing vs. Buschur ported stock w/E85
The results were rather impressive. An increase in power of 5% over a ported stocker, on E85, with at less indicated resistance (boost) results from reduced turbine side pressure and a lower PR across the compressor. It's like having one's cake and eating it too. Is it cheap? No, but neither is anything we're discussing here. What's it worth to possibly achieve 630whp at less boost than what it would ordinarily require to get 600whp? That's a calculated decision, and you already know mine.
For a standard block, I'd stick with 150mm. For a 4G64 block with its 6mm additional deck height, I'd stick with 156mm. Further lengthening the rod (e.g. 159mm) won't make a discernible difference on the dyno vs. 156mm, but the negative impact that results from the reduced compression height raises a whole 'nother can of worms.
What's a 'whole nother' anyway? Is there a such thing as a 'half nother'? Never did get that one ...
I currently have my HKS 272/280 combo in the head. We will be dynoing it on Tuesday to see what it can do with those pos cams. Then we will swap them out with our custom cams to see the real difference! The header that Mike tested, if I'm not mistaken, was a 1.5" runner Shearer. That will produce more gains than a FullRace imo. I don't think the FullRace is all it is up to be... I would not mind going with a tubular in the fall and test my gains, however the design of my manifold will need to be different and I'm not opening that can of worms at the moment.
Mikey
lol Its funny cause I was just talking to my wife about this not to long ago. She was never into cars before we met and for the first couple years she wasn't about it but she has been super supportive of my habit and even wants her own Evo now.
Anyways she was telling shes happy I'm getting what I want but shes not thrilled about the price and I said to her. I know I really do have a problem, spending 20k to get a car modified is just insane, but at least here on EvoM I'm in good company lol.
BTW I am not a doctor lol
Anyways she was telling shes happy I'm getting what I want but shes not thrilled about the price and I said to her. I know I really do have a problem, spending 20k to get a car modified is just insane, but at least here on EvoM I'm in good company lol.
BTW I am not a doctor lol
Looks like none of us are doctors...
I'm sure launching a 700hp is not the best on your body either!
Mikey
My fiance is kinda the same way, however she doesn't want an evo. The ***** wants a R35 and 1000hp. She said she will give it to AMS and let them do everything and send it to here with 1000hp. I laughed at her and said "you better find a better corner"
Looks like none of us are doctors...
I'm sure launching a 700hp is not the best on your body either!
Mikey
Looks like none of us are doctors...
I'm sure launching a 700hp is not the best on your body either!
Mikey
I always thought of taking Aaron to Vegas and putting him in some talent shows/circus and making money off him Mikey
That haunted me some nights in my sleep...sitting there at the line, the first yellow comes on, 2-step it, slip out the clutch, and then just sit there with that terrible smell in the cabin hearing laughter coming from under my hood because the damn thing didnt hold
lol yea, well after reading thru tons of threads and asking tons of questions myself, the general consensus was that the Twin HD's like to slip on cars that are in the 10's and Emery from STM particularly commented how he's seen Twin HD's slip on cars trapping 130 so it'd be best to just get the triple and be done with it. I forsee Ill pretty much be easily in that ballpark, especially with all the grunt the 2.4 delivers, I just didnt want to take the chances.
That haunted me some nights in my sleep...sitting there at the line, the first yellow comes on, 2-step it, slip out the clutch, and then just sit there with that terrible smell in the cabin hearing laughter coming from under my hood because the damn thing didnt hold
That haunted me some nights in my sleep...sitting there at the line, the first yellow comes on, 2-step it, slip out the clutch, and then just sit there with that terrible smell in the cabin hearing laughter coming from under my hood because the damn thing didnt hold
lol yea, well after reading thru tons of threads and asking tons of questions myself, the general consensus was that the Twin HD's like to slip on cars that are in the 10's and Emery from STM particularly commented how he's seen Twin HD's slip on cars trapping 130 so it'd be best to just get the triple and be done with it. I forsee Ill pretty much be easily in that ballpark, especially with all the grunt the 2.4 delivers, I just didnt want to take the chances.
That haunted me some nights in my sleep...sitting there at the line, the first yellow comes on, 2-step it, slip out the clutch, and then just sit there with that terrible smell in the cabin hearing laughter coming from under my hood because the damn thing didnt hold
That haunted me some nights in my sleep...sitting there at the line, the first yellow comes on, 2-step it, slip out the clutch, and then just sit there with that terrible smell in the cabin hearing laughter coming from under my hood because the damn thing didnt hold
I have not driven a triple before and I hear they are not a hill friendly as the twin 
Mikey
I priced a COMPLETE build like Mikeys from start to finish and I think we are really close to 15 or 16k and when I say complete I mean complete. It assumes you have most of the normal bolt ons (exhaust, intercooler) but really covers alot of the major stuff most people wont have.
aaron
3k-4k for the triple clutch?? I thought you could upgrade a exedy twin to a triple pretty cheap?? I guess we will find out if the carbon can hold those speeds your talking about im not shooting for 700 like you guys right now. so we will see if i can have my 10 second car with the twin holding
Mikey
It is 900 to upgrade the twin to the triple. That is exactly what I didn. Green Valley performance is the cheapest that I found. Sure the twin can hold 700hp but you have to look at the tq. It doesn't seem to hold much over 500tq and with a 2.4 you will be barking down the wrong road with the twin... jmo but I don't think it will last long. It should hold on the street for awhile, also depends on how old your clutch is. You don't want to launch the twin with the 2.4
Mikey
Mikey
. how do i go about doing that exactly?