HTA Green Boost Spiking :( Anyone else got this problem?
Jul 6, 2010, 08:13 AM
#16
Let me start by saying that I had the exact same setup as you. HTA Green 64mm, APS Twin vent, and 18psi WGA. I was getting TERRIBLE surging during spool up and boost spiking up high. It was a combination of the compressor cover and the BOV. My BOV would flutter and couldn't hold up to the 35 psi I was running with the HTA. Your only option is to either turn the boost down significantly to cut down on the compressor cover surge or at least change up the compressor cover. Once I switched to the 84mm Flow advancement port and the Tial QR Recirculating BOV I have had 0 issues. It is a night and day difference. The HTA is prone to these problems since it is using a standard 64mm stock flowing inlet and flowing significantly more air than the stock turbo. This causes spool up to be very rough and surging issues. I am telling you, I tried every solution, 25psi WGA, ECU boost, everything, nothing solved the problem until I purchased the 84mm port and a new BOV. Now it is flawless. Perfect DD combination and the spool up insane and smooth as butter.
I saw you said you don't want to upgrade, but I exhausted all options before I did and nothing worked... Sorry but your going to have to sink some money into her...
I saw you said you don't want to upgrade, but I exhausted all options before I did and nothing worked... Sorry but your going to have to sink some money into her...
Jul 6, 2010, 08:25 AM
#17
Do you have a Cat, or a testpipe? Do you still have the stock IX DV sitting around the garage? Is your HTA Green ported, or unported? Why donīt you want to go to the ported FP compressor cover?
Try eliminating the MBC and routing a hose directly from the compressor housing discharge tube nipple to the nipple on the WGA and then crank in the turnbuckle on the end of the actuator rod up to your preselected peak boost level.
Try eliminating the MBC and routing a hose directly from the compressor housing discharge tube nipple to the nipple on the WGA and then crank in the turnbuckle on the end of the actuator rod up to your preselected peak boost level.
Jul 6, 2010, 08:34 AM
#18
Are you sourcing your boost reference for the boost controller off the lower IC pipe?
Another option is ECU controlled boost. It can let you set a lower boost pressure in the areas that cause problems and then ramp up the boost where it can handle it.
Another option is ECU controlled boost. It can let you set a lower boost pressure in the areas that cause problems and then ramp up the boost where it can handle it.
Jul 6, 2010, 08:51 AM
#19
Oh and I was on the Hallman MBC before switching to ECU boost, so our boost source was the same. FP makes an intake that is reasonably priced... I was seeing this surge even at the 27psi I was running on 93 octane. It was identical to the 35-37 psi I was running on ethanol. I had no variation in compressor and boost surge wether it was 93 or E-85, it was just terrible all the way around. Just get the stiffest WGA you can buy, make sure the BOV adjustment spring isn't over tightened (or too loose for that matter) and try to get the least restrictive intake and especially exhaust combination. You need to make it as easy as possible for the turbo to push that air through the system. As I said though, I tried absolutely everything, and nothing worked. Went out and spend the 200 on the 84mm compressor cover and the Tial BOV (forget how much) and there isn't even a hint of compressor surge, it acts like a completely different car. I wish you were local so you could see for yourself. Maybe when I get her back in a few days I will take some videos to show you.
My source was off the J-pipe and it still did this. ECU boost didn't really help at all. You could use gear dependant boost I suppose and really dial things back where needed, but the issue is with almost all gears when the turbo is building boost and getting into the 20+ psi range... No matter what I changed it still was fluttering. I had 2 different expert tuners take a look at it and try and fix the problem by tuning alone, when it didn't work someone suggested switching up the cover and BOV.
My source was off the J-pipe and it still did this. ECU boost didn't really help at all. You could use gear dependant boost I suppose and really dial things back where needed, but the issue is with almost all gears when the turbo is building boost and getting into the 20+ psi range... No matter what I changed it still was fluttering. I had 2 different expert tuners take a look at it and try and fix the problem by tuning alone, when it didn't work someone suggested switching up the cover and BOV.
Last edited by buchnerj; Jul 6, 2010 at 08:54 AM.
Jul 6, 2010, 10:17 AM
#20
Oh and I was on the Hallman MBC before switching to ECU boost, so our boost source was the same. FP makes an intake that is reasonably priced... I was seeing this surge even at the 27psi I was running on 93 octane. It was identical to the 35-37 psi I was running on ethanol. I had no variation in compressor and boost surge wether it was 93 or E-85, it was just terrible all the way around. Just get the stiffest WGA you can buy, make sure the BOV adjustment spring isn't over tightened (or too loose for that matter) and try to get the least restrictive intake and especially exhaust combination. You need to make it as easy as possible for the turbo to push that air through the system. As I said though, I tried absolutely everything, and nothing worked. Went out and spend the 200 on the 84mm compressor cover and the Tial BOV (forget how much) and there isn't even a hint of compressor surge, it acts like a completely different car. I wish you were local so you could see for yourself. Maybe when I get her back in a few days I will take some videos to show you.
My source was off the J-pipe and it still did this. ECU boost didn't really help at all. You could use gear dependant boost I suppose and really dial things back where needed, but the issue is with almost all gears when the turbo is building boost and getting into the 20+ psi range... No matter what I changed it still was fluttering. I had 2 different expert tuners take a look at it and try and fix the problem by tuning alone, when it didn't work someone suggested switching up the cover and BOV.
My source was off the J-pipe and it still did this. ECU boost didn't really help at all. You could use gear dependant boost I suppose and really dial things back where needed, but the issue is with almost all gears when the turbo is building boost and getting into the 20+ psi range... No matter what I changed it still was fluttering. I had 2 different expert tuners take a look at it and try and fix the problem by tuning alone, when it didn't work someone suggested switching up the cover and BOV.
Pulling from 3rd gear starting at 3k, boost shot up (after a bit of lag) to 16-17 psi and then dropped to a steady 11-12psi.
I did a pull from 2nd gear starting at 3k, boost went right to 15-16psi and stuck on 15psi virtually to redline.
After that second gear pull, I was starting to think that maybe the only reason I had spike was because I was pulling at 3k in 3rd which was too low an rpm?
hopefully this provide some more insight, but im still a tad confused.
Jul 6, 2010, 03:02 PM
#21
I could see how this would happen, but I don't think thats the case here. I of course ran the stock ix turbo with the same setup, which of course spools as fast if not faster than the new HTA Green I have, so I don't believe the gauge couldn't keep up. The only thing really different in the equation is the turbo, injectors, and boost controller. I used to have the ams mbc, but I couldn't control boost with it at all as opposed to the stock ix turbo. The boost kept shooting up quick past 25psi no matter how I had it set. Thats when I went to the hallman, and at least was able to regain the control.(well, some of it)
I think I really need to try to adjust the actuator. I know when I had this problem on my buick, I had to do the same. We shall see.
I think I really need to try to adjust the actuator. I know when I had this problem on my buick, I had to do the same. We shall see.
the faster boost builds the faster the needle moves and the harder it is to slow down.
from you last test though its obvious you have a wastegate flow problem. there is more wastegate flow at 11psi than there is at 20psi. you are getting big spike at 11psi because you are getting poor flow through your wastegate passage.
Jul 12, 2010, 04:23 AM
#22
I started the teardown, and think I may have found the problem. I went to undo the turbo to manifold bolts, and they came off like butter, so I am starting to think that I should have retorqued them after a couple heat cycles. It would make sense, as when I first buttoned this up, boost control was fine, and only after a couple long drives did it start to do this. I may retorque the turbo-to-manifold bolts and put everything back together to see if that helps. Still debating as it will save me some money.
Jul 12, 2010, 12:51 PM
#24
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The APS dual vent needs a large vacuum line ran to it directly from the intake manifold. Any other source will case surging. Then it has to be adjusted as loose as possible and still hold your desired boost or again....surging my occur. I also recommend taking it apart and re-lubing it with synthetic grease. Then wrap the threads with teflon. This should cure the suring.
As for the boost spike....An exhaust leak would certainly cause issues.
As for the boost spike....An exhaust leak would certainly cause issues.
Jul 12, 2010, 02:12 PM
#25
The APS dual vent needs a large vacuum line ran to it directly from the intake manifold. Any other source will case surging. Then it has to be adjusted as loose as possible and still hold your desired boost or again....surging my occur. I also recommend taking it apart and re-lubing it with synthetic grease. Then wrap the threads with teflon. This should cure the suring.
As for the boost spike....An exhaust leak would certainly cause issues.
As for the boost spike....An exhaust leak would certainly cause issues.
Jul 12, 2010, 02:22 PM
#27
ECU boost won't solve the problem. It could be a BOV issue, but as I said before, mine was a combination of both the compressor cover and the BOV. I am running more boost than you though, so your BOV could work and the surging could be stopped by the 84mm cover...
Jul 12, 2010, 07:25 PM
#28
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I donīt like setting boost in 3rd gear, or 2nd gear either. I always liked setting boost in 4th gear on an uphill grade instead.
Now that you have your MBC disconnected and are running the hose directly from the comp housing discharge tube to the WGA...try shortening the actuator rod by roatting it inwards clockwise three full turns. this should get you up to about 18 PSI....hopefully with no spike.
Now that you have your MBC disconnected and are running the hose directly from the comp housing discharge tube to the WGA...try shortening the actuator rod by roatting it inwards clockwise three full turns. this should get you up to about 18 PSI....hopefully with no spike.
Jul 12, 2010, 07:41 PM
#29
I donīt like setting boost in 3rd gear, or 2nd gear either. I always liked setting boost in 4th gear on an uphill grade instead.
Now that you have your MBC disconnected and are running the hose directly from the comp housing discharge tube to the WGA...try shortening the actuator rod by roatting it inwards clockwise three full turns. this should get you up to about 18 PSI....hopefully with no spike.
Now that you have your MBC disconnected and are running the hose directly from the comp housing discharge tube to the WGA...try shortening the actuator rod by roatting it inwards clockwise three full turns. this should get you up to about 18 PSI....hopefully with no spike.
I am just going to bite the bullet and get the compressor housing and 18psi wga. What do you guys do to adjust your actuator? It's a pain in the @$$ and I cant see how to get to it with it in the car.
Jul 12, 2010, 07:48 PM
#30
I never really had a problem setting boost like that. This only started when I went from the stock turbo to the HTA Green.
I am just going to bite the bullet and get the compressor housing and 18psi wga. What do you guys do to adjust your actuator? It's a pain in the @$$ and I cant see how to get to it with it in the car.
I am just going to bite the bullet and get the compressor housing and 18psi wga. What do you guys do to adjust your actuator? It's a pain in the @$$ and I cant see how to get to it with it in the car.