Labonte MotorSports

iTrader: (9)

Note likely, check valve will still bleed off line pressure when you go off throttle and result in fluid dribble into the intake.

Labonte MotorSports

iTrader: (9)

Actually Labonte was the first to change over from shurflow to the 250psi recirculating pumps in 2008.

Evoryder

iTrader: (55)

You guys sure were. Aquamist followed around the same time coolingmist jumped aboard.

SeansEvoAte

God Damn you people!

After waffling for a week i was literally like 5 minutes from buying the new AEM failsafe then I read Labontes post. Stop making stuff for like 1 day so I can go ahead and buy something and not instantly feel like I should have waited.

Now I have to go look at the S4 system...

SeansEvoAte

OK, I have read the S4 instruction manual completely and have a question. It looks like you teach the failsafe your flow by using the test button right? It learns the flow and compares it to thew desired flow and if it doesnt match it triggers a failsafe.

I dont see how you adjust the failsafe, or is that even necesary? it learns the flow curve and compares high and low at that point but doi you have to adjust it further. i dont see where you can do that if you want to.

R/TErnie

iTrader: (32)

Nice vid Labonte.

that was exactly what I was looking to see. Great product

esevo

iTrader: (11)

Ya I know, I ment 1st VS AEM lol I should go back and change that so it reads more clear..


Evan Smith

Richard L

iTrader: (5)

Can't remember who, someone has asked for a video showing the atomisation of a a PPS system at low duty cycle. Here is a video showing a 0-50% DC. Judge it yourself. Note: It is not brand specific but it is a PPS system in its basic form.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xuAPg1FnGk

94AWDcoupe

iTrader: (125)

Labonte, your S4 kit looks outstanding. Best kit on the market if you ask me. Very simple, stout reliable design.

wreckleford

iTrader: (2)

Labonte,

Is your system PPS. I know you ay control is based off of boost and duty cycle but it may be like snow's IDCBoost based PPS system. Please elaborate.

BTW, based on your video, it looks like the solenoid works very well to prevent bleeding. Thanks for that.

Labonte MotorSports

iTrader: (9)

On the Setup screen of the S4 there is a Nozzle Calibration icon. When selected the S4 will start flow mapping the entire system. On the previous S3 systems, the nozzle flow maps were pre-configured and the user would select the nozzle size installed in the vehicle. With the S4 self calibration, and variances in pump pressure or nozzle tolerances are accounted for in the flow maps.

Once the S4 self calibration routine is completed, the system creates a band gap around the nozzle flow map. No additional adjustments are needed. If actual flow varies from the desired flow anywhere along the map the fail safe will trigger. The system also has a severe overflow detection. If for example a fluid line was to come loose, the system instantly detects this and shuts off spray so you don’t get fluid all over your motor. If one wants to spend time mucking around with laptop software and multiple setup parameters and trying to get things dialed in, that is not our product. If one wants to spend more time enjoying the performance gains of meth injection with smart, safe and simple – set and forget tuning then look into the S4.

The goal of the design of the S4 system was to package realtime flow monitoring and advance methanol injection control into one simple to install unit. By combining flow monitoring, wiring and install time are reduced and results in less system failure points for increased reliability. The electronics of the S4 have been completely redesigned for multiple levels of fault detection and protection. The unit can detect shorted outputs, reverse batter protection and other automotive transients. To the best of our knowledge, Labonte meth controllers are the only ones on the market designed to meet or exceed SAE automotive specifications for load dump, alternator field decay and other transients.

If you look at the specifications, all Labonte injection controllers drive the signal to the pump and solenoid. This makes for a more reliable and easy install as the pump and solenoid are then grounded to vehicle frame. This is a more expensive design since the electronics have to handle the power requirements. Other systems require battery connection to the pump and then the controller sinks the return line to enable. This is a much lower cost design and can get away with smaller cheaper packaging. The problem is that any short along the return line to the controller would result in full spray from the pump and fill the motor with fluid. Combine this type of design with a check valve and you are asking for the gremlins to step in.

Labonte MotorSports

iTrader: (9)

Currently () all our systems are PPS. With the solenoid, pressure is locked in the fluid line at 50psi. This is the min required pressure for proper fluid atomization. It also acts like an accumulator between pump and solenoid for fluid. this results in consistent performance and A/F ratios from the system.

I believe the snow system just tracks and varies flow based on IDC between a low and high point similar to our stage II controllers. The S4 actually uses the injector signal and calculates the amount of fuel going into the motor. Then based on boost it determines the load on the engine and then calculates the correct amount of meth to spray delivering a nice flat A/F curve that is easy to tune with.

R/TErnie

iTrader: (32)

Great info! Great product. If I ran meth... I'd be all over it

SeansEvoAte

ok, your response to NS@AEM's statement "The only correct way to do it is to allow the user to fully define the minimum and maximum allowable flow across the entire injection curve and the AEM Injection Monitor is the ONLY system that does this." your response was "WRONG" and a link to the S4 system. after reading both instruction manuals pretty carefully and reading your description above I think that NS is correct he is claiming that the AEM is the only one that allows the customer to fully define the min and max flow curves across the entire injection curve. the AEM lets the user define a maximum flow curve and a minimum flow curve. the user gets to define the shapes and set the tolerances. On your system the controller learns the flow and then sets a window around it which the user cant change. both systems use different values depending on the fluid demand but the AEM's is user definable and according to your instructions and your description above the S4s not.

it seems like NS is correct about the AEM being the only one that can do that

another question is the s4 controller available separately to people who already have an existing kit?

Talonboost

This is getting into an interesting area that I don't think we've talked about much yet. I've been reading about the Coolingmist Smart Controller a little bit, and with that controller you can set the min and max points and you can then put whatever numbers you want into an 8 cell by 8 cell map to define what happens in between the min and max points, like a fuel map. This puts out a 0-5 volt signal that you can run to the VC2 FS pump controller which then does the PPS thing with the pump motor. The smart controller can take a Hz signal from your MAF to use as one of the dimensions of its map. MAF Hz makes a lot of sense to me, as one of the control inputs. The other dimension can be a 0-5 volt signal from a MAP sensor, or whatever.

If you want a 3 dimension map, the VC2 can make its own 2D map by combining the Smart Controller output with Boost. The VC2 can get boost input from a tube going to one of your manifold pressure hoses. So if you were routing the manifold pressure to the VC2, and routing MAF Hz and, say, a 0-5 volt IAT or EGT signal to the Smart controller, you would have a nifty 3D map. Plus the VC2 lets you put a weighting factor on its inputs. So it would be a user-weighted 3d map.