COL Knock

You can easily fit a solenoid driving hobbs with adjusted pressure at controller start.

Richard L

iTrader: (5)

Thanks I will put that in.

COL Knock

On topic of Hobbs switches, anyone know if they can be used on the 12vdc side (switch before load)?

I currently have a few hobbs switches on component grounds. I would rather not have power sitting on coils waiting for ground but I'm not sure if they can be used as a power switch so I have them that way.

Richard L

iTrader: (5)

What switching rating is your hobb switch? Solenoid valve induces a nasty spike during switch off. It will erode the contact of your switch. I would also like to know the coil resistance of the solenoid valve.

Perhaps you can use a relay to interface with your grounded switch and save the contacts eroding.

Richard L

iTrader: (5)

I would like to explain the work involved in producing a "low cost" system and a "high cost" system, is it a justifiable expense.

COL Knock

Hobbs switch is rated to 8 Amp at 12VDC, solenoids are 20-30Ω.

Richard L

iTrader: (5)

Hobbs switch is perfect, plenty of metal on the contacts, Everything should work first time. It is OK to have a switched +12V on non-ground side of the hobb switch. Just insulate the terminals.

COL Knock

Thank's Richard!

Talonboost

Ok, so for injecting 100% water through a single nozzle, it seems pretty clear that locating the nozzle at the intercooler outlet is the way to go for even distribution to the cylinders. Should the nozzle be bunged to the pipe near the ic? Or is it better to bung it actually to the intercooler end tank near the exit, possibly in such a way that it is aimed axially right into the pipe - centerline of nozzle coincident with centerline of pipe? If it is mounted onto the pipe rather than the end tank, would it be a regular perp to pipe centerline mounting, or would you aim it down stream at some angle, kind of how fuel injectors are mounted in an intake runner?

Now what problems do we have if we want to inject a water-meth mix (or even 100% meth) instead of 100% water, and we want the nozzle at the intercooler outlet? Is this pretty do-able, or is it a bad idea?
The blow-off valve would be in there somewhere, it would be chuffing out meth mist quite often (with me driving ). It would have to be a recirculating BOV for safety, I suppose. But would the BOV be a problem?
The consequences of an intercooler pipe blowing off while spraying would be what? No worse than using your windshield washer? Fire in the hole? Toxic exposure?
The silicone rubber couplers used at ic pipe joints - silicone rubber fairly good with methanol I gather. But would those couplers swell, loosen, weaken, ?.

Richard, do you think that with this nozzle location it is best to inject just water? Or are these other problems really nothing, say for a 50/50 meth water mix.

Gary

SHhhhh

iTrader: (73)

lol

94AWDcoupe

iTrader: (125)

talonboost
I injected 100% meth at I/C outlet for years. Meth does come out blowoff valve. And it does a wonderful job at keeping intercooler spotless on the inside as the meth gets sucked back in the intake.

Talonboost

That's interesting because some people worry that meth is corrosive to aluminum. So here you are talking about the components in the path of the BOV recirc - intake pipe to compressor housing, through the compressor wheel, Lower ic pipe, through the intercooler from one end to the other - all of which are made out of aluminum except possibly for your pipes! No pitting on your compressor blades?

According to the Methanex Methanol guide, meth/water mixes are more corrosive to aluminum than pure meth. So with a meth/water mix, still no problem here do you think?

94AWDcoupe

iTrader: (125)

I noticed no corrosion anywhere. very little is being recirculated. but it does a nice job of cleaning over time. the inside of I/C looked literally brand new. thats when i realized there was meth being sucked back into intake.

30 years ago I run water injection at mouth of turbo on a VW with no intercooler. After 25k miles there was no discernible wear on blades. The amount of meth being recirculated is pale in comparison to how much water was spraying directly on blades.

C6C6CH3vo

iTrader: (9)

Methanol is only corrosive when it's just sitting there. Atomization is the key, smaller nozzles and more pump muscle. Dribbling can be replaced with atomization this way. If your AFR goes south after WOT, then your dribbling. I try to keep it above 11to1 after a WOT with 85% MeOH.

I have sprayed into the compressor for about 3000 miles. The nozzle was solenoid controlled to above 15PSI boost only. With the particular turbo used (stock) I found it to be of no benefit when using an IC.

Richard L

iTrader: (5)

Does the cheap WMI system work? As the poster (Scheides) invite wmi manufactures to contributor since I am already registered as a vendor here. I will have a go. Please remember it is my opinion and so not reflect on other wmi's maker’s opinion.

By definition, a cheap system cost less then an expensive system. I will explain with Q&A…


Why is it cheaper?
It has fewer components and takes less time to assemble.

Does it work?
Yes, a definite yes. A cheap system is normally triggered by a hobb switch, over a preset manifold pressure, the pump runs and sending pressurise water to a nozzle.

Does it work for my car?
Yes it will. The system will spray fluid and cooling your charge air and lower your combustion temperatures.

Would it work on any car?
A cheap system will work well within a small boost range because if you inject too much fluid will overcool and result in power loss.

How much can I inject?
100% water ………… 10-15% ratio to fuel
M50:W50 .. ………... 15-20% ratio to fuel
100% methanol …...... 20-25% ratio to fuel
This is about is about the maximum one can inject before yielding negative gain. Location with high ambient and poor fuel quality benefits more.

Why are some cheap kits cheaper than cheap kits with similar specifications?
The obvious answer is the cost of the raw materials. It takes the same time to assemble up a kit in a box. Do a search on ¼” plastic hoses at Mcmaster Carr and you will instantly notice the range of material and cost.

Do all wmi makers use the same raw materials?
Yes and No… Yes, they all claim they use the best technologies and best material. No, it is not always true because the market is small but highly competitive because there are so many wmi makers around.

How does Joe public tell the difference between facts and fiction?
Joe public is often smothered by technical jargons and mega power potential. It is really not that difficult nowadays. Pick a few systems that serve your needs and do a search and read as much as your patience allows. Look for the positive as well as the negatives. Pm those who have used the same system and ask for their experience.

Why are there so many wmi makers around?
Most wmi systems are very basic and very easy to make. Spend an hour at McMasterr Carr, you will find all the materials there to make a fully functional system at a fraction of the branded kit. Line up all the parts neatly, put a sticker on the pump and take a few pictures on your camera phone publish it on the net. You are now a new member of the wmi manufacturers association. It is really that easy.

Climbing and climbing for the better…Most wmi makers started this way. This includes aquamist except we were thrown into the deep end by a number of large corporate customers demanded that only the best would do. We invested in the concept and they fulfilled their obligations as the grand paymaster. It was a dream start for us.

We want to make a cheap system for the aftermarket tuning sector…Due to the aftermath of supplying 80% of the works rally cars and machines were running almost at 24/7 rate. We have been repeatedly contacted by aftermarket tuning world, make an affordable system for the sector. More machines were brought in, so the single stage system1s, 2d and 2s were launched before the year 2000.

Does this cheap system1s work?
Now that we have the years behind us and we can look back. Yes the system did work and has served the after market industry till 2008. That is over 12 years. We stuck to our principle of 10-15% w/f ratio, well within the SOA (Safe-Operating-Area) of the ECU. The engine is safe even when it was switched off.

The aftermarket wanted more power, 2006 on… We have decided to develop a range of high flow wmi systems. Having gathered vast experiences from the past, we opted for only two types of operating modes, single stage and IDC tracking. We looked into a pump speed system but due the response time, linearity and lack of dynamic range we dropped that idea pretty quickly.

We developed the PWM valve system to meet the performance … FYI, in order to track fuel flow faithfully between a power sweep of 100 to 400bhp we need a dynamic range of 4:1.at WOT. This does not include the partial throttle modulation within those power bands. To achieve a dynamic range of 4:1, a PPS system requires a pressure change of 16:1 or 40psi to 640psi! We decided on a dynamic range of 10:1 minimum for our IDC. An equivalent PPS system requires a pressure change of 100:1. Not financially viable and practical to design a 4,000psi pump.

True performance does not come cheap but HFS-3 has changed this…This is the biggest difference when you purchase an aquamist High Flow System with constant 160psi pressure pump. Each system is equipped with an inline valve with a response time of a few thousandth of a second. No loss in atomisation between the lowest to the highest flow. Each PWM valve in individually calibrated, designed and assembled in house. The HFS-3 is ours latest release, price is comparable to a PPS system.

This concludes our contribution. We welcome any comments and chance of further discussions, includes any suggestion on our future products.