Ummm, N2O is legal as Church on Sunday.... not sure where you got the notion it is against the law. Also, I don't have to deal with CARB like you poor bastards in CRC (Communist Republic of California) so having a header is also legal as Church on Sunday for me and about 75% of the population of this country.

Keith

 

I guess you've never used the SFP tubular manifolds then. Full 3 year warranty. We do "not" use stainless steel since, yes, they crack very easily. However our design has been proven time and time again and works beautifully.

Us DSM guys can attest that most cast manifolds crack very often as well.

Here is a pic of our manifold on designmanfx's car with the optional thermal coating polished finish.

 

Sorry to hear about this Al. I can tell you that carbon monoxide poisoning doesn't get better. One of the NASCAR guys just retired this year from continous co2 poisoning. I got it really bad about 2 years ago dyno'ing my Supra in the building in the winter. I had been opening the doors to air it out but I didn't do it enough. Now I can't be around it for very long at all. Limbs start going numb, hearing gets real faint. It's a real *****. I guess once it is in your system it is more or less there to stay and it takes smaller and smaller doses of co2 to effect you each time, this is why the NASCAR driver retired.

I have tried to tell you guys that no matter what you do or who the genius is that tells you his manifold is going to last forever it just isn't going to happen. A tubular manifold on a 4g63 is going to crack, it is going to fail, it is just a matter of time.

The new manifolds that we are doing are made of a Ni-resist ductile stainless. This manifold is going to last indefinetely. You won't see cracking or breaking in this part. Over time we have seen small cracks appear inside of cast manifolds, we have never seen a failure or one break. This is referring to stock lower quality pieces too.

I am just a firm believer in a good flowing cast exhaust manifold for street use, you can't beat them. Combine this with the 15 years of turbo experimenting we have done and you are going to end up with a killer turbo combination.

Just wait and see.

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com

 

Dave, that may be your opinion about manifolds in general. That is not a fact. The reason why I say this is we've been producing DSM manifolds for the 4G63 Eclipse/Talon for years now. AGP turbo's uses our manifold in their turbo kits. We offer a full 3 year warranty and rarely if ever see any manifolds back. In fact I can't remember the last time I've had a DSM one come back. The only time manifolds crack is if the user does not run a flex section in his downpipe and the full weight of the full exhaust system yanks on the manifold when the engine torques hard. This evolution manifold is produced off the same platform as the DSM ones and works beautifully. I'm not trying to start a flame war or jack your thread. I just stated the fact that tubular steel header style manifolds can be made very stout and ultra reliable.

 

AL, glad your ok.
Side question. Did you notice and boost leak or creep leading up to this?

 

HKS is going to laugh at you on the warrantee.
It is a race kit "FOR OFF ROAD USE ONLY", no chance at legal action.

On a lighter note, people and companies like HKS should know by now that 302 stainless is not for turbo manifolds!

Thick 321 stainless or inconel are much better choices.

Manifold design plays a large part in which direction each runner expands and contracts. If they are pulling against each other, cracks will appear after just a few heat cycles.
Proper bracing is also important.
A combination of all is the best bet. Too bad proper turbo manifolds are few and far between.

I agree that you should have been able to hear the leak way before you got sick!

aaron

 

Dave it just occured to me that you might have been refering to stainless steel manifolds. I agree that most of those will fail in due time. The SS material is way to brittle and as you heat cycle it, it fails. The thing that makes our manifolds different is that we've done extensive testing trying different materials to see what is the strongest possible. We've found 1010 heat treated mild steel 11ga. thick wall tubing is by far the best material out there. That combined with an expert welder and flex sections in the downpipes gives us no trouble.

 

Glad you had the sense topull over! After spending all that money, I would expect an inconel header. They still crack as well, but nowhere as quick! Any idea what the wall thickness of the tubing?

 

dam al, be thankful yer ok!

 

Dave - thanks for the reply. My health must come first so PLEASE put me down on the list for the entire set up when its ready. I know the BR parts have shown themselves to make the most power of any parts so far so I am confident that youtr turbo kit will be of equal quality, power and value.

BTW - for those asking - there was no noise waht so ever - it was a clean crack - my car is loud anyway

 

Glad you're okay man. Thanks for the WARNING.

 

Al if you want a stronger manifold we can make you one at a good price. We're going to be making John a mild steel coated manifold for his setup since the HK$ one is bound to crack. To make two at the same time would be simple. Let me know.

 

You might want to pick up a carbon monoxide detector at Home Depot and lay it in the car for a while after you fix it. Hell, for all the time you spend in dyno rooms you ought to keep one with you all the time. Maybe you are getting gassed on the job.

 

Wow...Scary, its one of those things you would just figure it would break...but big deal. Who would have thought of C02 posioning! Ack, be careful!

Anyhow, I think Al is probably chomping at the bits to get a BR580 on his car

 

quote:
Originally posted by rebelzx
God damn! I'm glad you caught it before something even more serious happened! I'm happy to hear you're ok. Tubular header designs are never as strong as cast manifolds- especially when you're running as much power as you are.


Glad that you are ok , I have had same experience that the SS exhaust manifold has crack before . Which was in an all motor set up , which doesn't compare to a FI set up . After having a bad experince with that im , and have been recommend by others to have a cast manifold for an upgrade turbo would be 10x better and no worries on cracking like a SS would.