Dynoflash VS Exede results!
Originally posted by Smogrunner
Just edited this post. Al, I have a lot of respect for you and your work. I am a Vishnu customer and would like to point out that this thread shouldn't have been titled "Dynoflash v. Xede" because it wasn't a fair comparison. Would you like one of your customers to show up at Shiv's place with his car tuned out of whack with mods that may have thrown your custom dyno tune out balance? I know you didn't start this thread, but you seem more than happy to play along.
I ask you: Have any of your customers tinkered with their motors and thrown what you did for them out of whack? Probably.
By the way, I'm glad you are feeling OK from that CO poisoning. Happy holidays.
Just edited this post. Al, I have a lot of respect for you and your work. I am a Vishnu customer and would like to point out that this thread shouldn't have been titled "Dynoflash v. Xede" because it wasn't a fair comparison. Would you like one of your customers to show up at Shiv's place with his car tuned out of whack with mods that may have thrown your custom dyno tune out balance? I know you didn't start this thread, but you seem more than happy to play along.
I ask you: Have any of your customers tinkered with their motors and thrown what you did for them out of whack? Probably.
By the way, I'm glad you are feeling OK from that CO poisoning. Happy holidays.
Originally posted by MP5
Good results AL but the reason this thing was lean is the K&N filter erroring the MAF as well as using a stage 0 map (which is for an xede and a catback) If he was by chance using the stage 0 with DP map then it should be closer. Also there is no replacement for a custom tune! I dont know how much shiv has put into the lower stage basemaps, but it is also up to the end user to adjust the boost max appropriatley and not use MAF error producing filters!! I dont know why people insist on this as the whole concept of tuning is based on the MAF
Good results AL but the reason this thing was lean is the K&N filter erroring the MAF as well as using a stage 0 map (which is for an xede and a catback) If he was by chance using the stage 0 with DP map then it should be closer. Also there is no replacement for a custom tune! I dont know how much shiv has put into the lower stage basemaps, but it is also up to the end user to adjust the boost max appropriatley and not use MAF error producing filters!! I dont know why people insist on this as the whole concept of tuning is based on the MAF
Originally posted by DynoFlash
If you are saying that a K & N drop in filter could throw the a/f curve off by that much on the Exede - - - - THEN I say that Micheal Jackson should hire you as his new spin doctor to convince the world he is a hetrosexual male
If you are saying that a K & N drop in filter could throw the a/f curve off by that much on the Exede - - - - THEN I say that Micheal Jackson should hire you as his new spin doctor to convince the world he is a hetrosexual male
Originally posted by ez76
tuner from the product).
We've pointed out how the XEDE can ultimately provide finer grained control over engine output, which in the hands of a competent tuner could make for a smoother tune:
tuner from the product).
We've pointed out how the XEDE can ultimately provide finer grained control over engine output, which in the hands of a competent tuner could make for a smoother tune:
In Timeout
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Originally posted by DynoFlash
You are halucinating if you think ANY piggy back can provide greater control over engine tunng than a reflash that lets you re-write all the fuel and ign maps from scratch. No piggy back can make a smoother tune than my Dyno Flash - its impossible.
You are halucinating if you think ANY piggy back can provide greater control over engine tunng than a reflash that lets you re-write all the fuel and ign maps from scratch. No piggy back can make a smoother tune than my Dyno Flash - its impossible.
Originally posted by b18flip
Sorry for the typo, i meant 10/10 instead of 11/10 on my post, here's the link
http://www.vishnutuning.com/xede_evo.htm
it's the 93 octane stage 0+
I am not out here to criticize Xede or am I out to advertise for Al. I posted up the results because I've seen the many posts about dyno runs comparing the two, just wish i re-installed my stock air filter. By the way, i have no clue when it comes to a/f's or maf's but would it really cause it to run lean like that? In any case, Al wasn't even present when the Pruven Tech's when dynoing the xede and stock setup. Al was only at the dyno when he was doing thereflash.
I know and have seen both sides have had great results along with some bad. In my case, after installing Xede, my idle was off. I'm not sure if it directly or indirectly caused it but it only happend after it was put in. The car was check and re-checked many times for any possible installation mishaps but everything was fine. So I went up to Pruven to have the car checked and took up Al's offer of dynoing the car with xede, stock and flashed to see what we get and possibly find the cause of the idle problem.
Sorry for the typo, i meant 10/10 instead of 11/10 on my post, here's the link
http://www.vishnutuning.com/xede_evo.htm
it's the 93 octane stage 0+
I am not out here to criticize Xede or am I out to advertise for Al. I posted up the results because I've seen the many posts about dyno runs comparing the two, just wish i re-installed my stock air filter. By the way, i have no clue when it comes to a/f's or maf's but would it really cause it to run lean like that? In any case, Al wasn't even present when the Pruven Tech's when dynoing the xede and stock setup. Al was only at the dyno when he was doing thereflash.
I know and have seen both sides have had great results along with some bad. In my case, after installing Xede, my idle was off. I'm not sure if it directly or indirectly caused it but it only happend after it was put in. The car was check and re-checked many times for any possible installation mishaps but everything was fine. So I went up to Pruven to have the car checked and took up Al's offer of dynoing the car with xede, stock and flashed to see what we get and possibly find the cause of the idle problem.
Originally posted by MP5
Absolutely! Ask AL himself the K&N errors the MAF with the potential to really error it with oil splash on the MAF furthur degrading the ability on a MAF based tuning system (which is wonderful BTW with its temp corrections) to properly alter the fuel curve.
Absolutely! Ask AL himself the K&N errors the MAF with the potential to really error it with oil splash on the MAF furthur degrading the ability on a MAF based tuning system (which is wonderful BTW with its temp corrections) to properly alter the fuel curve.
IF the "oil" in the K & N panel somehow "degraded" the ability of the MAF sensor - then why did everything snap back into place and run like a swiss watch the minute I tuned it with the reflash?
As the gentleman said above - I did not have ANYTHING to do with the baselines on this car - I sat in my truck in the parking lot trying to stay away from the exhuast smoke as much as I could. I had them do 3 base lines - they all sucked
Last edited by DynoFlash; Nov 29, 2003 at 10:42 PM.
Originally posted by Andre 3000
Agreed some guys are mistaken on this concept- However a resolution a dynoflash is exactly equal to the induced resolution of the xede!
Agreed some guys are mistaken on this concept- However a resolution a dynoflash is exactly equal to the induced resolution of the xede!
Originally posted by MP5
Al like EZ 76 said the Xede fires the FBC so your recomendation should state "We do not recomend removing the pill with the dynoflash system as it has no ability to account for spikes like the xede " But this is a perfect example of a dynoflash customer (a customer that wants true plug and play and to not have to make even a single tuning decision) accedentaly getting their hands on too complicated a system.
Al like EZ 76 said the Xede fires the FBC so your recomendation should state "We do not recomend removing the pill with the dynoflash system as it has no ability to account for spikes like the xede "
But this is a perfect example of a dynoflash customer (a customer that wants true plug and play and to not have to make even a single tuning decision) accedentaly getting their hands on too complicated a system.
IF you want more boost and a great running car - try the Dyno Flash and a HKS EVC V boost controller - for a little more than an Exede you get a really serious set up
Originally posted by MP5
But this is a perfect example of a dynoflash customer (a customer that wants true plug and play and to not have to make even a single tuning decision) accedentaly getting their hands on too complicated a system.
But this is a perfect example of a dynoflash customer (a customer that wants true plug and play and to not have to make even a single tuning decision) accedentaly getting their hands on too complicated a system.
Originally posted by DynoFlash
MP5 - like i said before - you should go work for Micheal jackson man - you can help convince the world that sleeping with little boys is a harmless, inocent fun experience.
IF the "oil" in the K & N panel somehow "degraded" the ability of the MAF sensor - then why did everything snap back into place and run like a swiss watch the minute I tuned it with the reflash?
As the gentleman said above - I did not have ANYTHING to do with the baselines on this car - I sat in my truck in the parking lot trying to stay away from the exhuast smoke as much as I could. I had them do 3 base lines - they all sucked
MP5 - like i said before - you should go work for Micheal jackson man - you can help convince the world that sleeping with little boys is a harmless, inocent fun experience.
IF the "oil" in the K & N panel somehow "degraded" the ability of the MAF sensor - then why did everything snap back into place and run like a swiss watch the minute I tuned it with the reflash?
As the gentleman said above - I did not have ANYTHING to do with the baselines on this car - I sat in my truck in the parking lot trying to stay away from the exhuast smoke as much as I could. I had them do 3 base lines - they all sucked
I never said or alluded that you "doctored" any dynosheets Al I said this guy was running improper hardware with improper maps on his car. That is not any fault of an xede system or a basemap! Shiv specifically states NO FILTERS!!
Originally posted by DynoFlash
You are halucinating if you think ANY piggy back can provide greater control over engine tunng than a reflash that lets you re-write all the fuel and ign maps from scratch. No piggy back can make a smoother tune than my Dyno Flash - its impossible.
You are halucinating if you think ANY piggy back can provide greater control over engine tunng than a reflash that lets you re-write all the fuel and ign maps from scratch. No piggy back can make a smoother tune than my Dyno Flash - its impossible.
If the XEDE can change the input values seen by the ECU 11% more frequently, it can have 11% more control over what it does, regardless of the stock ECU resolution. More control = more potential for a smoother tune. The resolution of the stock ECU is not the most relevant factor nor is it necessarily the limiting one.
Assuming the ECU's sampling rate of its inputs is sufficiently high enough with the respect to the rate at which the XEDE can manipulate them, the XEDE can have more control over engine operation than the stock ECU. In fact, this is even more true in conjunction with a complementary reflash because at that point you are not even limited by the stock ECU's range of output behaviors (voltages): you can modify those to suit.
Originally posted by DynoFlash
IF you look at the two dyno sheets you will see that the same spike and dip at approx 4700 are present in BOTH dyno sheets - just acentuated in the dyno flashed sheet becuase its spooling up so much harder - removing the stock restrictor pill makes the spike on the stock boost system no matter which piggy back you add
IF you want more boost and a great running car - try the Dyno Flash and a HKS EVC V boost controller - for a little more than an Exede you get a really serious set up
IF you look at the two dyno sheets you will see that the same spike and dip at approx 4700 are present in BOTH dyno sheets - just acentuated in the dyno flashed sheet becuase its spooling up so much harder - removing the stock restrictor pill makes the spike on the stock boost system no matter which piggy back you add
IF you want more boost and a great running car - try the Dyno Flash and a HKS EVC V boost controller - for a little more than an Exede you get a really serious set up
Originally posted by ez76
It does not matter that you can rewrite the maps from scratch if you are constrained to 256 cells and constrained to being driven exclusively by the car's sensors.
If the XEDE can change the input values seen by the ECU 11% more frequently, it can have 11% more control over what it does, regardless of the stock ECU resolution. More control = more potential for a smoother tune. The resolution of the stock ECU is not the most relevant factor nor is it necessarily the limiting one.
Assuming the ECU's sampling rate of its inputs is sufficiently high enough with the respect to the rate at which the XEDE can manipulate them, the XEDE can have more control over engine operation than the stock ECU. In fact, this is even more true in conjunction with a complementary reflash because at that point you are not even limited by the stock ECU's range of output behaviors (voltages): you can modify those to suit.
It does not matter that you can rewrite the maps from scratch if you are constrained to 256 cells and constrained to being driven exclusively by the car's sensors.
If the XEDE can change the input values seen by the ECU 11% more frequently, it can have 11% more control over what it does, regardless of the stock ECU resolution. More control = more potential for a smoother tune. The resolution of the stock ECU is not the most relevant factor nor is it necessarily the limiting one.
Assuming the ECU's sampling rate of its inputs is sufficiently high enough with the respect to the rate at which the XEDE can manipulate them, the XEDE can have more control over engine operation than the stock ECU. In fact, this is even more true in conjunction with a complementary reflash because at that point you are not even limited by the stock ECU's range of output behaviors (voltages): you can modify those to suit.
Originally posted by MP5
The "resolution" argument should be used with other piggyback/intercept systems and in referring to proper CAS angle replication- we arent overwriting anything so no greater resolution can be had
The "resolution" argument should be used with other piggyback/intercept systems and in referring to proper CAS angle replication- we arent overwriting anything so no greater resolution can be had
The point I was making is that, strictly speaking, an ECU's resolution is not ultimately a limiting factor if the piggyback's resolution is greater because the piggyback can still drive the ECU (which is normally passively controlled by sensors and its maps).