Respectfuly - I disagree 1,000 %

There is no way any piggy back - no matter how many times a second it samples or WHAT ever it does can ADD ANY additional "resolution" or sensitivity over the resolution of the stock ecu maps - its impossible. So long as the ECU fires the coils and injectors you are stuck with merely choosing which one of the stock ecu cells you want to run on - you can not get any additional choices no matter what you add on to the system.

Even worse for piggy back users - if you can't at least re-write those stock cells (eg reflash) your options are even more limited

 

Yeah, I think the bigger issue is that the XEDE's resolution is actually not (much) more than the Evo's.

 

Was that a unfinished point? There is no need to "rewrite" any OL on boost cells with the xede as it is "inducing" the intended behavior from the ECM. No spin zone AL!!

 

Thanks for the plug. Nice to meet you and the rest of the gang! And thanks for the opportunity and trust to work on your car. I approach re-tuning anything touched by Tadashi with great reverence and respect as he is a master of the art and a total class guy. In this case the RMR suction pipe leans out the air flow significantly and therefore any tuning which he did was out the window.

I think you can now see our thoery of Evo tuning. We run the car very rich - far richer than ALL major tuners. We run decent timing and we make good power with a incredable margin of error to assure that mo matter what kind of gas you get and what driving conditions you meet the car is running safe and detonation free.

ANOTHER set of wise ecu experts at run these cars under 10/1 a/f on the stock evos - for good cause. We feel that 11/1 is the best compromise between performance, saftey and engine life

PLEASE drive you car over the next few days and then report back how it reacts under various conditions and temps with the new richer tune

 

I think you are confusing resolution (output frequency) with range (set of possible output values).

Agreed the range of possible output values is limited, no question there, but unless I am wrong about the way the ECU translates inputs to outputs, the frequency at which those output values can change is not as constrained. If there are 256 hardcoded output values for fuel, ignition and boost, then at any given time you can only be choosing one of them, but if an external source can cause them to change at will (by manipulating the inputs at a high frequency), then with enough driver output values (piggyback map cells), you can effect higher resolution maps.

As far as range goes, if there are holes in the output range you want to fix, you can reflash the ECU to put them in desirable cells and complement the piggyback tune.

Then the limiting factor becomes the ECU's sampling rate; how quickly it can change outputs itself. MP5 hinted that our ECU doesn't really like to flip between nonadjacent cells *****-nilly, if that's the case then I concede most of this is for naught.

 

What I mean by that is the ign timing is NOT smooth on stock EVOs - it jumps up and down - creating the rough power band and jumping boost gague on stock Evos

IF you want smooth those cells out - you have NO way to avoid the rough timing transitions without torturing the piggy back settings into a inflexable moras that throws off the tune the miunte you change gears or the temp changes

With a reflash - you simply rewrite the cells with the values you want - game over

 

Agreed with MP5 and evn worse than not being able to swtich between non adjasent cells - - the stock ecu takes an average of several cells at once - a real nightmare when you start to reach the bottom on the load axis

 

Interesting. If the averaging is predictable though then it is just one more function in the big black box that should be able to be accounted for by a suitable reflash of map values. Same with gear-dependent maps/behaviors, and temperature-dependent behaviors (if they're in maps rather than actual ECU code ). A lot more complexity though, to be sure. In the XEDE case you'd need to combine the functionality of XMap with that of a reflash tool to end up with an appropriate "do what I want" interface that knew not only how to drive the ECU but as well what values to stuff in its maps to get it to behave right.

 

So your idle problem had nothing to do with the XEDE? You actually made more peak power with our off the shelf map then with custom dyno tuning by Al? Even with running the incorrect filter in your car which hurt your A/F ratios and probably cost you some midrange and top end power as well. How many dyno runs did you do with the XEDE hooked up? How much were you charged for the reflash by the way?

Pity that Pruven didn't want to tune your XEDE so that you could have made more power than you ended up with custom tuning with the flash. I hope that AL didn't charge you full pop for the flash to pick up -2 horsepower when Pruven could have just tuned your XEDE with better results. Perhaps you should go back to PRUVEN, not Al and have them tune that XEDE on top of the flash and see how much power you pick up. I think you would be delighted by the results, as we have tuned on top of a few flashes here with the XEDE and have made significant gains over when the car was brought in.

Anyway for people wanting flashes our user tunabale flash is now in the final stretch and we will be offering the end user at least 2 maps to play with, possibly three. With mail order a posssibilty because of this unique feature and guaranteed more than 10-15 horsepower gains. Our tuning device will also work on a Works or Al flash as well giving the user a lot more flexibility. This will allow the drag/race guys on the list to add some race gas and change maps, similar to our XEDE set up, but using the flash and a small auxilary ECM unit. Take care guys.

 

I still love that BS

 

If you did actual testing then you would see that indeed the K7N fi8lter does cause the A/F ratios to change. That's why we recommend a stock filter with our mail order maps(which produced more power than you were able to make with custom tuning) without any intakes. The fact that this customer dynoed with the filter in makes the results invalid as far as power produced and A/F ratios. He more than likely would have made more power if the factory filter was left in and the A/F ratios would have been around the mid 11 range. Please do not make sweeping statements about the safety of our products as that does getr dangerous close to SLANDER(as you well should know being a lywarer).

As for the car to car variances that is easily accounted for: poor break in by the customer using the factory oil that comes in the car from the dealership. REMOVE the Mobil 1 immediately if you are buying and Evo to help the motor seal and replace it with mineral oil. PERIOD. If you did not do this then smell your oil cap or dipstick and tell me does it smell like oil, or gas? If it smells like gas then I shouldn't need to tell you what that is, or why it's bad. Also why the cars make different power from one to another. Very simple. You can also do a more complicated test(like we have done for countless Evo customers) that measures in H/C the amount of gas in the oil. Very surprising results.

 

Actually the truth, not B.S. Anytime you are in the area pass by our shop and see for yourself. Changing filters/removing them causes changes in the A/f readings. That's why we need to custom tune cars with filters/intakes, plain and simple.

 

Dave,AMS,Al and proven all make SUBSTANTIALLY more power then you. When you guys lay off the hype and make real power ill consider your *opinion*. Until then ill use the vishun topic of the day threads for my daily entertainment. You guys are always good for a quick chuckle.

 

Only a fantasically irrational person whould look at that dyno sheet and foucs on the little 2 whp spike up at the very peak of the Vishnu power band and ignore the 30 ft lbs of low end trq and massive gains all through out the power band !!!!!

Your like Mike Tyson fight Lenox Lewis claiming some small victory after getting his butt whipped for 12 rounds , saying - "my face was so tough I busted Lennox's fist with my nose"

The reflash - tuned and intsalled with dyno time costs $450.00 at Pruven in case your interested in getting one on your car !

I am offering this guy a free re-dyno session if he wants to come back and retest the Vishnu system on his ar with and without the air filter to show just how wrong you guys are about the K & N filter - however with 12.4 a/f's and serious detonation - he prob wont want to take the chance of blowing his motor to proove a point

 

The K & N drop in filter does NOT significantly alter th a/f ratios on Evos - it is a very mild upgrade with little or no effect on a/f's

We will be testing this very soon - to show your lame excuses are just that - excuses

Slander is not slander if its true - I was only reporting what we saw