for anyone that has crankcase pressure issues
Nov 24, 2010, 09:06 PM
#211
For the winter months I am going to switch it up to Amsoil Dominator 10w-30 or 10w-50. I only run 93 in it during that time and don't beat on it too bad, so it should be sufficient enough for lubrication at that power level and adequate enough for cold weather use.
Nov 24, 2010, 09:08 PM
#212
For the money Brad Penn is really hard to beat. I really liked it for the new motor because it was a semi synthetic and it helped with break in.. The only concern I have with it is during the winter months in the sub freezing temperatures. You don't really want a motor that is a 20w at low temps for initial startup let alone driving with it until the motor is fully warmed up. Wouldn't want to do any bearing damage before the oil is viscous enough to do its job...
For the winter months I am going to switch it up to Amsoil Dominator 10w-30 or 10w-50. I only run 93 in it during that time and don't beat on it too bad, so it should be sufficient enough for lubrication at that power level and adequate enough for cold weather use.
For the winter months I am going to switch it up to Amsoil Dominator 10w-30 or 10w-50. I only run 93 in it during that time and don't beat on it too bad, so it should be sufficient enough for lubrication at that power level and adequate enough for cold weather use.
-Em
Nov 24, 2010, 09:08 PM
#213
why do you keep bringing up the pcv valve? all the pcv valve is there for is to make sure intake manifold pressure doesnt enter the valve cover and pressurize it. its a a one way check valve.. i have a dual catch can so it is seperated therefore i will run from the pcv to the intake manifold..
Im using the air intake to suck out vapors from the other catch can.. there is a dual catch can setup being used here like this: http://www.saikoumichi.com/DC3_page.htm
cept with bigger inlet and outlets. i know what im doing, i put hours of research into it.
Im using the air intake to suck out vapors from the other catch can.. there is a dual catch can setup being used here like this: http://www.saikoumichi.com/DC3_page.htm
cept with bigger inlet and outlets. i know what im doing, i put hours of research into it.
Nov 24, 2010, 09:13 PM
#215
Nov 24, 2010, 09:19 PM
#217
It must also be realized though that damage can be done just at the initial start up, i.e. the turnkey and first few seconds of idle. That is when oil pressure initially is close to zero and the cylinders are firing (in less than a second it will shoot up to 90+psi). At that moment you are reliant totally on the adhesion properties of the oil and their good anti-wear additives (zinc, phos, etc) to prevent bearing damage.
So how long will it take for the oil to warm up and flow freely? Also, at freezing you want it to flow as freely as possible, so a lower weight would be more beneficial at dead cold startup. We'll see I guess...
Last edited by buchnerj; Nov 24, 2010 at 09:26 PM.
Nov 24, 2010, 09:22 PM
#218
I'm using a Kiggley regulator in the head and my catch can doesn't fill up running low 10's.
When I said PCV fitting, I meant the PCV side hole in the VC.
Next time I'm on the dyno, I'm going to try to run a shop vac over catch can vent just to see if it helps.
When I said PCV fitting, I meant the PCV side hole in the VC.
Next time I'm on the dyno, I'm going to try to run a shop vac over catch can vent just to see if it helps.
Nov 24, 2010, 09:23 PM
#219
http://www.mcmaster.com/#7775k23/=9v7q5u
trying these first tho:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=36844
i put 40psi through one and it didnt crack open so i suspect its pretty damn strong.
also doing the kracka krank vents also ontop of those so ill have a army of check valves
Nov 24, 2010, 09:27 PM
#220
This isn't a good idea because you don't get the vacuum scavenging the crankcase. It's not just pressure that you want to vent but contaminants such as moisture that gets into the oil and engine. I don't think I have to explain why moisture in an engine would be a bad thing.
Under vacuum, the PCV allows clean filtered air to come through the air filter, through the breather line in the intake pipe, under the valve cover to mix with any water vapor, oil vapor, etc, and then the vacuum in the intake manifold pulls it in to get burned in the cylinder. It's not just for emissions...it definitely has it's engineering purposes.
Of course under boost, now the IM is pressurized and the PCV valve is closed. Now any crankcase pressure only has the breather hose to exit. Now the flow is reversed from the above screnario. This is why it's important to have the breather hose connected to the turbo intake pipe. The turbo now provides the suction and vacuum to scavenge and excess crankcase pressure and vapors due to blowby, etc. Simply having that little breather hole with no vacuum assistance isn't going to do much there and that's when the dipstick issues come into play. Of course, if you have a very well broken in motor with little to no blow-by issues of course you aren't going to have blow-by issues. But, that is the reason why it happens.
But, what I first described is why the PCV valve is there and why it shouldn't be removed and vented.
Under vacuum, the PCV allows clean filtered air to come through the air filter, through the breather line in the intake pipe, under the valve cover to mix with any water vapor, oil vapor, etc, and then the vacuum in the intake manifold pulls it in to get burned in the cylinder. It's not just for emissions...it definitely has it's engineering purposes.
Of course under boost, now the IM is pressurized and the PCV valve is closed. Now any crankcase pressure only has the breather hose to exit. Now the flow is reversed from the above screnario. This is why it's important to have the breather hose connected to the turbo intake pipe. The turbo now provides the suction and vacuum to scavenge and excess crankcase pressure and vapors due to blowby, etc. Simply having that little breather hole with no vacuum assistance isn't going to do much there and that's when the dipstick issues come into play. Of course, if you have a very well broken in motor with little to no blow-by issues of course you aren't going to have blow-by issues. But, that is the reason why it happens.
But, what I first described is why the PCV valve is there and why it shouldn't be removed and vented.
Where does blow by come from? It comes from the crank case. Piston exhaust smoke leaks through piston rings, fill up the crank case with pure blow by and absolutely no fresh air! Then they travel through the passages to the head and under the valve cover and make their way out through the ports and/or pcv valve.
Now, think about it... If your creating that "ventilation" to bring in the fresh air that will save contamination, your only doing it in the valve cover. What about the true dungeon, the crank case? There is absolutely no ventilation there.
Oil is designed to take the abuse and last X amount of miles and or time before breaking down. Thats why we have all these additives in oils.
The valve cover ports are there to relieve the pressure. The PCV valve is there to assist the recirculation of the valve ports for the blow by so that we pass emissions testing.
Nov 24, 2010, 09:38 PM
#221
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oh ok np. also i was researching other check valves to work with the stock pcv i found these:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#7775k23/=9v7q5u
trying these first tho:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=36844
i put 40psi through one and it didnt crack open so i suspect its pretty damn strong.
also doing the kracka krank vents also ontop of those so ill have a army of check valves
http://www.mcmaster.com/#7775k23/=9v7q5u
trying these first tho:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=36844
i put 40psi through one and it didnt crack open so i suspect its pretty damn strong.
also doing the kracka krank vents also ontop of those so ill have a army of check valves
Thats exactly what I was referring to below! I'll have to look into it all later, I want to make sure its not something that will clog.
Since I am on a VSR and not a stock intake mani or intake tube I am running a all-star catch can with dual bung's, and a filter on top (same as AMS catch can) and drilled the stock pcv hole out to accommodate a -10 an fitting, then the same with the driver side pre-exsisting port and I ran -10 line to the catch can. Like most I am getting a lot of water / condensation / stinky *** combo in my catch can.
I was doing some testing with the catch can and when pressure is applied to one port of the catch can or the other the flow of pressure is a lot higher in flowing out of the opposite port and a lot less coming out of the filter on top of the catch can. So it seems that is hurting relieving pressure a ton instead of helping.
To prevent this I am messing with the idea of adding a 1 way check valve / back flow preventer to each port of the catch can, then capping off the top of the catch can and running the bottom drain of the can to a fitting on the exhaust at about a 45* angle (post 02 sensor). If I try that out then I would probably add a air / water, oil separator to the line going to the exhaust. This in turn would create a good amount of vacuum to assist in relieving crank case pressure.
That or I would really like the try adding a electric / belt driven vacuum pump instead.
I was doing some testing with the catch can and when pressure is applied to one port of the catch can or the other the flow of pressure is a lot higher in flowing out of the opposite port and a lot less coming out of the filter on top of the catch can. So it seems that is hurting relieving pressure a ton instead of helping.
To prevent this I am messing with the idea of adding a 1 way check valve / back flow preventer to each port of the catch can, then capping off the top of the catch can and running the bottom drain of the can to a fitting on the exhaust at about a 45* angle (post 02 sensor). If I try that out then I would probably add a air / water, oil separator to the line going to the exhaust. This in turn would create a good amount of vacuum to assist in relieving crank case pressure.
That or I would really like the try adding a electric / belt driven vacuum pump instead.
Nov 25, 2010, 07:23 AM
#222
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Why not run both VC ports to DC2 or can of your choice and then to intake (pre turbo)? This way both ports are always getting vacuum and freeing up pressure and hp. This would seem easier than tapping AN fittings and would apply much more vacuum.
Last edited by cij911; Nov 25, 2010 at 07:28 AM.
Nov 25, 2010, 08:57 AM
#223
"Sounds good" and I've read that in so many places. But its wrong.
Where does blow by come from? It comes from the crank case. Piston exhaust smoke leaks through piston rings, fill up the crank case with pure blow by and absolutely no fresh air! Then they travel through the passages to the head and under the valve cover and make their way out through the ports and/or pcv valve.
Where does blow by come from? It comes from the crank case. Piston exhaust smoke leaks through piston rings, fill up the crank case with pure blow by and absolutely no fresh air! Then they travel through the passages to the head and under the valve cover and make their way out through the ports and/or pcv valve.
But just for others that actually like to learn...
Yes, the blowby is due to combustion within the cylinder forcing combustion products and any unburned mixture past the piston rings and into the crankcase. It's funny that you call it 'piston exhaust smoke'. It shows how uneducated you are and it's funny that you say 'I'm wrong'.
Your piston exhaust smoke is all byproducts of combustion of gasoline and any unburned mixture. In a perfect world, hydrocarbons burn completely to form CO2 and water. In our engines, it forms CO2, water, CO, Nitrogen oxides, unburned hydrocarbons (fuel) and air. Hmmm...I think that's a little more detailed than your 'piston exhaust smoke' (or pure blow-by as you also mention...wtf does pure signify there...that's it's ok or clean or something???).
A couple big things here to note are: water and fuel
We're running metal engines here and you can get corrosion of any metal surfaces that are exposed to these contaminants. Having aluminum engine parts helps here because of the thin protective oxide that aluminum forms when exposed to oxygen (water), but our engines aren't 100% aluminum. Not to mention, that when you start to dilute oil with contaminants, it affects it's lubricating properties.
So, again, if you don't understand the true functions of the PCV system on our engines, please don't tell me I'm wrong. If you want to disagree with me, fine...but please don't argue with chemistry, physics, science, research and evidence of all of these scientific facts.
Originally Posted by BluEVOIX
Now, think about it... If your creating that "ventilation" to bring in the fresh air that will save contamination, your only doing it in the valve cover. What about the true dungeon, the crank case? There is absolutely no ventilation there.
I'm done arguing or educating you. Please be a better man and don't continue to post your pseudo mis-information time and time again for others to start believing. People come to this forum to learn and it's becoming clogged with opinion that leads to bad choices. Let's just leave both of our explanations up and let people decide on their own what they think is right...or better yet, let them do their own scientific research to come to their own conclusion.
Last edited by l2r99gst; Nov 25, 2010 at 09:11 AM.
Nov 25, 2010, 09:02 AM
#224
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BlueEVOIX, if you don't want to learn something fine. But please don't tell me I'm wrong on something that is fact. Absolutely nothing I said was wrong. But, I really don't want to argue with you and/or educate you anymore.
But just for others that actually like to learn...
Yes, the blowby is due to combustion within the cylinder forcing combustion products and any unburned mixture past the piston rings and into the crankcase. It's funny that you call it 'piston smoke'. It shows how uneducated you are and it's funny that you say 'I'm wrong'.
Your piston smoke is all byproducts of combustion of gasoline and any unburned mixture. In a perfect world, hydrocarbons burn completely to form CO2 and water. In our engines, it forms CO2, water, CO, Nitrogen oxides, unburned hydrocarbons (fuel) and air. Hmmm...I think that's a little more detailed than your 'piston smoke'.
A couple big things here to note are: water and fuel
We're running metal engines here and you can get corrosion of any metal surfaces that are exposed to these contaminants. Not to mention, that when you start to dilute oil with contaminants, it affects it's lubricating properties.
So, again, if you don't understand the true functions of the PCV system on our engines, please don't tell me I'm wrong. If you want to disagree with me, fine...but please don't argue with chemistry, physics, science, research and evidence of all of these scientific facts.
But just for others that actually like to learn...
Yes, the blowby is due to combustion within the cylinder forcing combustion products and any unburned mixture past the piston rings and into the crankcase. It's funny that you call it 'piston smoke'. It shows how uneducated you are and it's funny that you say 'I'm wrong'.
Your piston smoke is all byproducts of combustion of gasoline and any unburned mixture. In a perfect world, hydrocarbons burn completely to form CO2 and water. In our engines, it forms CO2, water, CO, Nitrogen oxides, unburned hydrocarbons (fuel) and air. Hmmm...I think that's a little more detailed than your 'piston smoke'.
A couple big things here to note are: water and fuel
We're running metal engines here and you can get corrosion of any metal surfaces that are exposed to these contaminants. Not to mention, that when you start to dilute oil with contaminants, it affects it's lubricating properties.
So, again, if you don't understand the true functions of the PCV system on our engines, please don't tell me I'm wrong. If you want to disagree with me, fine...but please don't argue with chemistry, physics, science, research and evidence of all of these scientific facts.
on Blue. Could you give me your thoughts on my previous post re: running both VC ports to a catch can and then to the pre turbo intake (and just capping the port on the intake manifold) ? TIA
Nov 25, 2010, 09:39 AM
#225
After all it's the holidays and I'm really a nice person.
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!!! On to your question...
If you run the PCV port (that originally goes to the IM) to the turbo intake pipe, then you're getting almost 0 vacuum assist during non-boost.
In stock setup, the PCV valve is open because of the large amount of vacuum in the IM. That vacuum both open the valve and provides the vacuum to scavenge. If you eliminate this as you describe, then you are eliminating this vacuum source. The turbo under cruising conditions won't provide much. You have to account for both screnarios...on boost and off boost.